Re: [core] Lars Eggert's Discuss on draft-ietf-core-new-block-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Wed, 05 May 2021 09:02 UTC

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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-core-new-block@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-core-new-block@ietf.org>, "core-chairs@ietf.org" <core-chairs@ietf.org>, "core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>, "marco.tiloca@ri.se" <marco.tiloca@ri.se>
Thread-Topic: Lars Eggert's Discuss on draft-ietf-core-new-block-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 09:02:15 +0000
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Subject: Re: [core] Lars Eggert's Discuss on draft-ietf-core-new-block-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Lars, all, 

Please see inline. 

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Lars Eggert via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org]
> Envoyé : mercredi 5 mai 2021 10:00
> À : The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
> Cc : draft-ietf-core-new-block@ietf.org; core-chairs@ietf.org;
> core@ietf.org; marco.tiloca@ri.se; marco.tiloca@ri.se
> Objet : Lars Eggert's Discuss on draft-ietf-core-new-block-11: (with
> DISCUSS and COMMENT)
> 
> Lars Eggert has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-core-new-block-11: Discuss
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut
> this introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-
> criteria.html
> for more information about DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-new-block/
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> DISCUSS:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> 
> The current CORE charter does not seem to cover the topic of this
> document. I also see no related milestone.
> 
> Section 1, paragraph 4, discuss:
> >    There is a requirement for these blocks of data to be
> transmitted at
> >    higher rates under network conditions where there may be
> asymmetrical
> >    transient packet loss (i.e., responses may get dropped).  An
> example
> >    is when a network is subject to a Distributed Denial of Service
> >    (DDoS) attack and there is a need for DDoS mitigation agents
> relying
> >    upon CoAP to communicate with each other (e.g.,
> >    [RFC8782][I-D.ietf-dots-telemetry]).  As a reminder, [RFC7959]
> 
> I understand that COAP was initially chosen to transport DOTS
> signaling messages due to their small size, support for structured
> messages and request/response semantics, as well as the ability to
> function over lossy paths such as found in IoT deployment, which COAP
> is architected for.
> 
> DOTS now seems to desire to transport larger messages,

[Med] It is true that DOTS was designed with compact messages in mind, but handling large data was **already** covered in the DOTS spec (see Section 4.4.2 of RFC8782). We then found that the normal block-wise mechanism is suboptimal for the DOTS application.

 and this
> document extends CORE to enable this functionality. However, this
> CORE extension seems to solely focus on Internet deployment
> scenarios, essentially attempting to re-architect COAP into a general
> Internet transport protocol for transmission over paths with high
> loss rates. I do not believe that the CORE WG is chartered to do
> this.
> 

[Med] This work is part of the maintenance of RFC7959 that is covered by the core WG charter:

==
The working group will perform maintenance on its first four
standards-track specifications:
==

As you can read in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-interim-2020-core-06-202006101600/, the WG decided to:
"scope it as an extension (as opposed to blockwise-bis)".

The plan is to use this extension as the base for a bis when the WG will be ready to cover other aspects that are left out of scope for this extension. See, e.g., https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-110-core-202103121300/: "it can be seminal material for a blockwise bis document".

I let the AD and the chairs further elaborate on the charter point.



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