Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-block
supjps-ietf@jpshallow.com Thu, 18 February 2021 13:18 UTC
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From: supjps-ietf@jpshallow.com
To: christian@amsuess.com, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2021 13:18:52 -0000
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Subject: Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-block
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Hi Christian, We have gone for adding in the following to the disadvantages list. * The Q-Block Options do not support stateless operation/random access. * Proxying of Q-Block is limited to caching full representations. Regards Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Christian M. Amsüss [mailto: christian@amsuess.com] > Sent: 16 February 2021 23:49 > To: jon@jpshallow.com; mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > Cc: draft-ietf-core-new-block@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org; core@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-block > > Hello, > > where not explicitly responded to, the updates address my points, thank you for > updating the document. > > > > * The Q-Block options do not support stateless operation / random > > > access. > > > > [Jon] Actually Q-Block2 does now support this following the > > redefinition of the M bit usage in a previous iteration (with M=0 you > > can ask for any individual block). > > Random access can also be in the Block1 phase; a standalone `PUT /resource > Block1:5/0/6` can be used independenlty of other operations to overwrite a > particular part of a resource. > > > [Jon] For stateless, Request-Tag is included so this should be fine. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-stateless-06#sec > > tion-4 > > By stateless, I was referring to the server not keeping state per body. > That is the opposite of using a Request-Tag. > > > > * Proxying of Q-Block is limited to caching full representations. > > > > > > (The latter might be mitigated by additional text around caching, but > > > I doubt it's worth the effort given it's not part of the use case). > > > > [Jon] I am not entirely convinced that Block1/2 have got the caching > > by block properly sorted out - e.g. what happens when different > > clients make requests with different SZX and Block2 is part of the > > cache key. The limiting to caching full representations is there so > > that a new can of worms is not opened up. > > The Block options are not part of the cache key -- they are not-safe-to-forward > and thus come with rules as to the cache behavior, rather than havign a cache- > key property. > > The behavior is sorted out: If an earlier client requested, say, > block2:0//6 (first 1KiB), then while that is fresh, it may be used to serve any > request for smaller chunks (say, block2:1//5 for bytes 512-1024). > > The same is true in the other direction: A proxy may use its cached > 3x256 bytes (even exceeding the Max-Age), ask the server for the 4th 256 byte > block (which by its ETag confirms the others are still good), and then serve them > combined as a 1KiB response. > > > Thus, I think these two points (Incomplete support for random access, and block- > by-block proxying) still stand to be added to the considerations. > > To give you background on why I'm so picky about this list: People > *will* still get the initial impression that this is the later-and-greater version, and > for the outlined purposes it is, but if we don't set the expectations right here, > there will be disappointment. > > BR > c > > -- > To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater powers. > -- Bene Gesserit axiom
- [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-block Marco Tiloca
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… Christian Amsüss
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… supjps-ietf
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… supjps-ietf
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… supjps-ietf
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… supjps-ietf
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… supjps-ietf
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… supjps-ietf
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [core] [Dots] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [core] [Dots] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [core] [Dots] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… supjps-ietf
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… Christian M. Amsüss
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… Christian Amsüss
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… supjps-ietf
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… Christian M. Amsüss
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… supjps-ietf
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… supjps-ietf
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… Christian M. Amsüss
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… supjps-ietf
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… supjps-ietf
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… Christian Amsüss
- Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-bl… supjps-ietf