From nobody Wed Dec 23 01:52:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F2283A0E76; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 01:52:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q435Khb-I5yl; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 01:52:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (alt.prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D84E3A0E74; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 01:51:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 645FA407C1; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 10:51:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bf]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CB95AB; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 10:51:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:bd73:2e62:80f9:8152]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A1F6663; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 10:51:46 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 2814293 invoked by uid 1000); Wed, 23 Dec 2020 09:51:45 -0000 Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2020 10:51:45 +0100 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: "draft-ietf-core-new-block@ietf.org" , "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" , "dots@ietf.org" Message-ID: References: <18741_1608713479_5FE30507_18741_81_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330315A177C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Hr1RmnxscrfHuEJM" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <18741_1608713479_5FE30507_18741_81_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330315A177C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-block (No-Response) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2020 09:52:03 -0000 --Hr1RmnxscrfHuEJM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Med, > The text we have in the draft does not preclude No-Response (or any > solution that will be endorsed by the WG in the future):=20 >=20 > If both endpoints support No-Response, they can use it as a "signal in > the MAX_PAYLOADS" to trigger a 2.31 mentioned in the last sentence.=20 > > As we don't recommend No-Response (for reasons echoed in your > message), it is not worth to include much more details on how > No-Response can be used. =20 The only reason for No-Response I echo in my mail is the downref, and merely showing how these can interoperate does not create a normative reference. It's quite a stretch to assume people would read "requires an additional signal" as "could use No-Response". Working group documents time and again have outward references like "One way of doing this is being explored in [draft-...]", which is clearly non-normative, but at the same time allow the reader to get at least *some* indication of how things are meant to be used. What makes things worse here is that as long as this specification does not mention No-Response at all, it is not ensured that it interoperates well at all with No-Response; thus even if a reader can make the jump, they'd have to figure out on their own that it's probably best if No-Response overrides the response behavior of Q-Block. > The use of NON is thus superior but requires > an additional signal in the MAX_PAYLOADS packet to seek for a 2.31 > (Continue) from the peer if it is ready to receive the next set of > blocks. I missed that in the part where I'm asking for whether 2.31 would be produced. That paragraph really opens more questions than it answers: If Q-Block is intended to be usable with something to signal that now would be a good time for a response, then this almost contradicts the "2.31 (Continue) Response is not used in the current version" statement. Either this is a possibility already planned here, then the 2.31 cases should be properly described, even if it's just with a "but requires additional signaling, which for example can be achieved by combining this with No-Response:0". Or it's not planned out here, then the 2.31 mentioned in the quoted note is more of a note on future updates of Q-Block that would be necessary to leverage that combination (but I don't see any such document happening). Best regards Christian --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --Hr1RmnxscrfHuEJM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAl/jEy0ACgkQOY0REtOk veHppg/8CcTB5BbUE7h8pOCAmGiEH8BI+tgRPPRSND3nIe/zAkHpc6wOZYTmyJpp OL2t6YH5W4PQl8o8wNFonWyiq0L3hgw67xDv8eCJEKgX6s6s3yucswQs/Rp5MZkj rMqZlfSIoPUeMfq2wWu46quOjb8AifssRSCRN8AUjoI/aZKERukQyKv+MeIOZuzF rOUl1T5RuEsE5uebG0mfT54wtpGqjHMuIzon75LqLN1tunwxujYewafZAZNaL58f RkOyj9TWJqpaxqF1yMq7UPnXtG9cHtzCNyRN3vY7rqrsxbQ2hVpbaX6eyMvyHfQh MFsRraUPv3JNTGES2nb02cFFCyAe83aNVidMLfkR6c4KZAR2sl2usjzQ2o+nLlDq 8T9ByLpnhampZTSa/BNi1bA9uj4TWjbaof1d4lDShhxCkzD1hlw7t91eXHM0XcuC H6BxoS0F4ddLf60ANem4REZoTw0h+DaGkd+9AT/1/oiK2bMIvs+XildM7GANfatj KVdkFuwiPoAtwnSdtGukfSKWTDJRKG4IuJgVfQOh6WlLqbbrwbSRrL3y1+8phzvH hL8uMWVmfGBHv60fq0X1Iymm0DsJW31aFJbOxUNlvMqVAMxeTzG7JGKT0bq2lHBl UB3qjhaFrIdmGYnu6XLu0tDcLCVY2VGowPukPGZtNuBsiSPWTZg= =/b/m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Hr1RmnxscrfHuEJM--