Re: [core] Éric Vyncke's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-new-block-11: (with COMMENT)

"Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com> Mon, 03 May 2021 15:47 UTC

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From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-core-new-block@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-core-new-block@ietf.org>, "core-chairs@ietf.org" <core-chairs@ietf.org>, "core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>, "marco.tiloca@ri.se" <marco.tiloca@ri.se>, "csp@csperkins.org" <csp@csperkins.org>, "Emmanuel.Baccelli@inria.fr" <Emmanuel.Baccelli@inria.fr>
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Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 15:47:08 +0000
Message-ID: <165556CA-81F5-46F6-A40C-B4F3B69E03CC@cisco.com>
References: <162004421064.19511.6477108778521848512@ietfa.amsl.com> <32469_1620045364_608FEE34_32469_195_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035375C5B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-ietf?= =?utf-8?q?-core-new-block-11=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?=
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X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 May 2021 15:47:23 -0000

Hello Med,

See in-line for EV

As you know, all my comments are non-blocking, so, I have appreciated your reply.

BTW, have you seen the recent IoT directorate review by Emmanuel Baccelli
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/review-ietf-core-new-block-11-iotdir-telechat-baccelli-2021-05-03/

Kind regards

-éric

-----Original Message-----
From: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Date: Monday, 3 May 2021 at 14:36
To: Eric Vyncke <evyncke@cisco.com>om>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: "draft-ietf-core-new-block@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-core-new-block@ietf.org>rg>, "core-chairs@ietf.org" <core-chairs@ietf.org>rg>, "core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>rg>, "marco.tiloca@ri.se" <marco.tiloca@ri.se>se>, "csp@csperkins.org" <csp@csperkins.org>
Subject: RE: Éric Vyncke's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-new-block-11: (with COMMENT)

    Hi Eric, 

    Thank you for the comments. 

    Please see inline.

    Cheers,
    Med

    > -----Message d'origine-----
    > De : Éric Vyncke via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org]
    > Envoyé : lundi 3 mai 2021 14:17
    > À : The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
    > Cc : draft-ietf-core-new-block@ietf.org; core-chairs@ietf.org;
    > core@ietf.org; marco.tiloca@ri.se; marco.tiloca@ri.se;
    > csp@csperkins.org
    > Objet : Éric Vyncke's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-new-block-11:
    > (with COMMENT)
    > 
    > Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for
    > draft-ietf-core-new-block-11: No Objection
    > 
    > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
    > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut
    > this introductory paragraph, however.)
    > 
    > 
    > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-
    > criteria.html
    > for more information about DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
    > 
    > 
    > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
    > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-new-block/
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    > -
    > COMMENT:
    > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    > -
    > 
    > Thank you for the work put into this document.
    > 
    > Please find below some non-blocking COMMENT points (but replies would
    > be appreciated especially on the intended status/lack of public
    > implementations).
    > 
    > I hope that this helps to improve the document,
    > 
    > Regards,
    > 
    > -éric
    > 
    > == COMMENTS ==
    > 
    > !!! I was about to ballot a DISCUSS on this point... In the absence
    > of a section about existing implementations for such a new transport,
    > I really wonder whether standard track should be used rather then
    > experimental. Did the authors/WG run some simulations ?

    [Med] There is an implementation and a PR was pushed so that this functionality is supported in the libcoap. Please refer to the following from the write-up:

    ======
    A Pull-Request of an author's implementation to "libcoap" is available at https://github.com/obgm/libcoap/pull/611 

    Feedback from the implementation activity has contributed to the design and refinement of specific aspects, notably:

    - Limiting new mechanics for congestion control only to CoAP Non-Confirmable messages.
    - Not mixing CoAP Confirmable and Non-Confirmable messages for a same request/response body.
    - The 'Continue' indication of successfully received blocks.
    - The discovery of server support for the Q-Block1 and Q-Block2 Options.
    - Further lessons learned highlighted as "Implementation note" in the document.
    ====

EV> indeed, thank you. Now, whether this code has been tested in several setups / test cases (bandwidth, packet loss, reboots) would be interesting.

    > 
    > Happy to have read Colin Perkins' review for the Transport ART, which
    > has provided me with some confidence in this brand new transport
    > protocol. I am also trusting the TSV Area Directors on this point.
    > 
    > -- Section 1 --
    > I had in mind that constrained network are well protected either at
    > layer-2 or by having an air-gap or firewall at their edges, so, a DoS
    > seems quite improbable in those deployments.

    [Med] One side note: there were reports of "weak" implementations and deployments. You may refer for example to https://futureiot.tech/top-iot-protocols-mqtt-coap-have-major-flaws-warns-trend-micro/ or https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-coap-protocol-is-the-next-big-thing-for-ddos-attacks/. Of course, there are guards out there but deployments may not support them. 

EV> for sure __

     Should this 'use case'
    > really be part of the introduction? Or is it simply linked to the
    > DOTS use case ? In either case, the DoS should be more detailed.

    [Med] This is mainly driven by the DOTS use case. Not sure which more details you would like see added.   

EV> simply adding a reference to the DOTS RFC/user case to avoid confusing readers (like myself)

    > 
    > -- Section 3 --
    > Any reason why 'CON' is not expanded/explained on first use ?

    [Med] Actually, it is. Please refer to Section 1:

       As a reminder, [RFC7959]
       recommends the use of Confirmable (CON) responses to handle potential
       packet loss. 

EV> indeed, this was not my day...
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