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Re: [COSE] draft-prorock-cose-post-quantum-signatures [Was: Re: Call for COSE Agenda Items for IETF 113 in Vienna]

Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> Thu, 10 March 2022 01:52 UTC

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From: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
To: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Mike Prorock <mprorock@mesur.io>
CC: Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>, "cose@ietf.org" <cose@ietf.org>, Orie <orie@transmute.industries>, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [COSE] draft-prorock-cose-post-quantum-signatures [Was: Re: Call for COSE Agenda Items for IETF 113 in Vienna]
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Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 01:52:23 +0000
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Subject: Re: [COSE] draft-prorock-cose-post-quantum-signatures [Was: Re: Call for COSE Agenda Items for IETF 113 in Vienna]
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Russ, I can't tell from your brief comment if you're supportive of non-polymorphic or polymorphic algorithm identifiers.  Can you expand on your remarks?

For the record, I also believe the polymorphic algorithm identifiers were a mistake.  OAuth, OpenID Connect, FIDO2, W3C WebAuthn, and I believe other systems, all count on being able to use a single algorithm identifier to fully specify the cryptographic computation.  Polymorphic algorithm identifiers break that invariant.  We should introduce no more of them.

That's why, for instance, https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8812 intentionally introduced the new algorithm identifier "ES256K" for "ECDSA using secp256k1 curve and SHA-256"; it requires the use of "ES256K" for signing with the secp256k1 curve so that a polymorphic algorithm identifier is never used with it.

                           -- Mike (writing as an individual)

From: COSE <cose-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Russ Housley
Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2022 2:56 PM
To: Mike Prorock <mprorock@mesur.io>
Cc: Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>; cose@ietf.org; Orie <orie@transmute.industries>; Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [COSE] draft-prorock-cose-post-quantum-signatures [Was: Re: Call for COSE Agenda Items for IETF 113 in Vienna]




On Mar 8, 2022, at 2:36 PM, Mike Prorock <mprorock@mesur.io<mailto:mprorock@mesur.io>> wrote:

I believe most people (in retrospect) have rather come to the conclusion that polymorphic algorithms were a mistake.

+1 - that seems to be something that folks are finding out

Where the actual "kty" shakes out as we continue to improve the draft is yet to be seen.  "PQK" made sense at the time as this is dealing with post quantum keys and signatures - just as easily we could be looking at two key types, probably by family - e.g. one for lattice based, and one for hash based signatures, or could just as easily be "OKP" - we opened an issue to track that here:
https://github.com/mesur-io/post-quantum-signatures/issues/48
and will discuss on our next call.

This is exactly why we wanted the broader input from the COSE WG

https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8778.txt

Is there any reason to do things differently for other hash-based signatures?

Russ

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