Re: [Curdle] Time to Review IANA SSH Registries Policies?

denis bider <denisbider.ietf@gmail.com> Mon, 08 February 2021 16:47 UTC

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From: denis bider <denisbider.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 10:47:18 -0600
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To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Cc: Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz>, Curdle List <curdle@ietf.org>, Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com>, "Salz, Rich" <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Curdle] Time to Review IANA SSH Registries Policies?
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:D

Well argued.

The thing with a person or group getting out of the way is that this
vacates the opportunity for being in the way. The opportunity continues to
exist and becomes open to the next person.

This is generally the problem with power. Things work better with
coordination. We're therefore willing to pay a substantial cost to
coordinate. The role of the coordinator is a form of power. This power
works best if the coordinator coordinates, and otherwise gets out of the
way. But to use power in restrained ways is to serve, and to serve is a
burden. Therefore, the people who apply for such positions are (1)
reluctant volunteers who would serve, and (2) folks who see it as an
opportunity to "lead" and "govern".

Reluctant volunteers will gladly step away in favor of those who have more
enthusiasm, and those who have more enthusiasm are the ones who would
"lead" and "govern". And that's how we simultaneously want and need
coordination, but somehow it always devolves into some kind of tyranny.

Speaking very generally, the IETF is just a microcosm and a special case.

On Sun, Feb 7, 2021 at 9:41 PM Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
wrote:

> +1
>
> Registration processes can very easily turn into ring kissing
> requirements. And especially so when the authority is a voluntary
> organization.
>
> Lots of people get really, really excited at the idea that they are adding
> value by preventing work that might lead to vague, consequences that they
> can't quite put their finger on.
>
> And then when people go through the process and end up waiting six months
> for those people to make up their minds, well we are a
> voluntary organization so people should thank us for the very important
> work we do.
>
> I have a rather different view. I think that when someone puts themselves
> in the way of someone else's critical path, they are making a commitment to
> deal with the issue expeditiously and if that isn't possible, the answer is
> to not make things critical path.
>
> Given the number of times we have people pointing out the IESG are
> overworked, we should look to get out of the way as much as possible, not
> stand athwart the tides of history yelling stop.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 6:44 PM Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz>
> wrote:
>
>> Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> writes:
>>
>> >Restrictive registration requirements contradict the principle of
>> >'permissionless innovation'. If the IETF is the place you go to get
>> >permission to innovate, we are doing it wrong.
>>
>> +1.  To give a real-world experience of "expert review", when I tried to
>> go
>> through the process on $unnamed-wg there was an experts group that you
>> couldn't contact who had a non-public mailing list where decisions were
>> made
>> in secret, but that didn't matter since there was no way to contact them.
>> Eventually it got sorted out by one or two people involved in the process
>> going out of their way to help, but when done as it should have been the
>> process was more reminiscent of Kafka than the IETF.
>>
>> Peter.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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