Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.txt
Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> Thu, 06 February 2014 05:24 UTC
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To: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
From: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
References: <20140106212911.12960.24322.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <A1C41700-578C-45C1-9A66-ACC051970F47@gmail.com> <58D91468-4295-4AEB-A5F4-3C796CBF047A@vpnc.org> <20140205210516.GN278@mournblade.imrryr.org> <alpine.LFD.2.10.1402052254590.13653@bofh.nohats.ca> <20140206042311.GF21114@mx1.yitter.info> <20140206043138.GT278@mournblade.imrryr.org> <20140206044440.GI21114@mx1.yitter.info>
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Feb 2014 23:44:40 -0500." <20140206044440.GI21114@mx1.yitter.info>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 16:23:43 +1100
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Cc: dane@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.txt
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In message <20140206044440.GI21114@mx1.yitter.info>, Andrew Sullivan writes: > On Thu, Feb 06, 2014 at 04:31:38AM +0000, Viktor Dukhovni wrote: > > I must plead ignorance of the obstacle, what do you have in mind? > > I am repeatedly informed by my man pages, RFC 3493, and every web > browser implementer I've ever spoken to that getting the TTL on an RR > coming to you from the system resolver is hard. I'd be more delighted > than I can express to be misinformed, so if you know otherwise please > say so. And I say BS. If you are using a layer above the resolver (gethostbyname, getaddrinfo) yes it may be hard but for TLSA *there is no layer above the resolver*. libresolv/libbind have provided access to the TTL since the 1980's. Even Microsoft Windows programmers don't have a excuse as DnsQuery returns the ttl in its results. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms682016(v=vs.85).aspx > There is a new API (more a meta-api) that Paul Hoffman worked on > (http://www.vpnc.org/getdns-api/) that I think we should all embrace > partly for the above reason, but we're not even at 0-day with that yet > AFAICT. > > > If learning DNS TTLs along with the RRset data is problematic, > > application caches should have reasonably short maximum lifetimes. > > I recognise the basic impulse in what you're saying, but it gives me > pause. Timing attacks involving DNS and the browser "pinning" policy > have always struck me as plausible (and ISTR a demonstration, but I'm > darned if I can come up with it now). But using this sort of trick > for actual certificate stuff appears to make the target of any > pinning-timing attack more valuable. Is that a problem? (That's not > a rhetorical question. I'm an idiot.) > > [I get your other argument about lifetimes. Not trying to ignore, > just accepting.] > > A > > -- > Andrew Sullivan > ajs@anvilwalrusden.com > _______________________________________________ > dane mailing list > dane@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org
- [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.txt internet-drafts
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Scott Rose
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Scott Rose
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Scott Rose
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Jakob Schlyter
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate disc… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Mark Andrews
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Mark Andrews
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Larsen, Todd
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Larsen, Todd
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Jakob Schlyter
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Jim Schaad
- [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Wiley, Glen
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Tom Ritter
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime John Levine
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Wes Hardaker