Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer?

Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> Thu, 03 May 2012 22:45 UTC

Return-Path: <paul@nohats.ca>
X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07ACE21F873A for <dane@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 3 May 2012 15:45:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.527
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.527 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mqF3cmWRWqqs for <dane@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 3 May 2012 15:45:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from letoams.cypherpunks.ca (206-248-139-105.dsl.teksavvy.com [206.248.139.105]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92A7E21F873B for <dane@ietf.org>; Thu, 3 May 2012 15:45:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by letoams.cypherpunks.ca (Postfix, from userid 500) id 4D7AF855F6; Thu, 3 May 2012 18:45:11 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by letoams.cypherpunks.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 322BC803A3; Thu, 3 May 2012 18:45:11 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 18:45:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca>
To: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
In-Reply-To: <0526D60A-3F1B-4C55-9796-256BC2556AAB@vpnc.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.02.1205031834060.28022@bofh.nohats.ca>
References: <CABcZeBMY26xrfvAx=UsYN2XnuONZ2vPy9tNwHQALudd=yQDvgA@mail.gmail.com> <0526D60A-3F1B-4C55-9796-256BC2556AAB@vpnc.org>
User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (LFD 1266 2009-07-14)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Cc: IETF DANE WG list <dane@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer?
X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities <dane.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dane>, <mailto:dane-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dane>
List-Post: <mailto:dane@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dane-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane>, <mailto:dane-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 22:45:14 -0000

On Thu, 3 May 2012, Paul Hoffman wrote:

>> From the earlier thread on this topic, I do not think there is "wide agreement" on what is and is not bogus. RFC 4033 and 4035 don't even agree about it.
>
> Just because I like actual proposals for text, I believe what ekr is proposing is changing the current:
>   o  If the DNSSEC validation state on the response to the request for
>      the TLSA RRset is bogus, this MUST cause TLS not to be started or,
>      if the TLS negotiation is already in progress, MUST cause the
>      connection to be aborted.
> to:
>   o  If the DNSSEC validation state on the response to the request for
>      the TLSA RRset is bogus, or if a response is not received or the
>      response has no data, this MUST cause TLS not to be started or,
>      if the TLS negotiation is already in progress, MUST cause the
>      connection to be aborted.

I'm not sure I understand "has no data" in the context of DNSSEC with
a validation path (eg DS at the parent).

A response with no data, where there is a DNSSEC chain of trust, is
per definition bogus, as your response, even for 'no data' has to come
with the signed proof (NSEC/NSEC3)

I would just leave out "or the response has no data"

Paul