Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer?
Paul Wouters <paul@cypherpunks.ca> Fri, 04 May 2012 17:41 UTC
Return-Path: <paul@cypherpunks.ca>
X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix)
with ESMTP id ADAE821F85F6 for <dane@ietfa.amsl.com>;
Fri, 4 May 2012 10:41:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.535
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.535 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888,
HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com
[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RSZnGF2AQ2HI for
<dane@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:41:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from letoams.cypherpunks.ca (206-248-139-105.dsl.teksavvy.com
[206.248.139.105]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458E321F858F for
<dane@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:41:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by letoams.cypherpunks.ca (Postfix, from userid 500) id E5B29855F7;
Fri, 4 May 2012 13:41:27 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by letoams.cypherpunks.ca
(Postfix) with ESMTP id D7BA3803A3; Fri, 4 May 2012 13:41:27 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 13:41:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Wouters <paul@cypherpunks.ca>
X-X-Sender: paul@bofh.nohats.ca
To: Nicholas Weaver <nweaver@icsi.berkeley.edu>
In-Reply-To: <2DDB5448-6A34-4D68-9421-4505CCC71A1A@icsi.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.02.1205041339530.4407@bofh.nohats.ca>
References: <CABcZeBMY26xrfvAx=UsYN2XnuONZ2vPy9tNwHQALudd=yQDvgA@mail.gmail.com>
<0526D60A-3F1B-4C55-9796-256BC2556AAB@vpnc.org>
<20120503223745.GC1804@mail.yitter.info>
<CABcZeBMFV8oiZJfAY1fZ_0bBQWa=q6aBL65AS+W5gBuKmPnwOg@mail.gmail.com>
<20120504021044.GB4560@mail.yitter.info>
<B25C977F-6B4E-458C-879D-A36EDB94DA75@icsi.berkeley.edu>
<20120504023602.GA4683@mail.yitter.info>
<CABcZeBO93n_C5detefBcOjAoswe2inGKDj65gQPDQmREyGnhAw@mail.gmail.com>
<20120504112922.GB4929@mail.yitter.info>
<2DDB5448-6A34-4D68-9421-4505CCC71A1A@icsi.berkeley.edu>
User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (LFD 1266 2009-07-14)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Cc: dane@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer?
X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities <dane.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dane>,
<mailto:dane-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dane>
List-Post: <mailto:dane@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dane-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane>,
<mailto:dane-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 17:41:28 -0000
On Fri, 4 May 2012, Nicholas Weaver wrote: > This is why browser's have given up on the other solution for the bad CA problem: Certificate Revocation Lists. Because an attacker can block the CRL check, and the CRL check is NOT mandatory (they are unreliable enough that its not treated as a hard fail), CRLs are useless for blocking attackers. But CRLs are cached, so once you got it from a working connection, it does offer some protection once you move into a hostile network and you already have the cached CRL of the cert they try to use on you. > DNSSEC at all requires client validation, and client validation REQUIRES that the client be able to bypass the significant-probability-broken recursive resolver already. DANE doesn't really add to that: If the client can fetch DNSSEC signed records, TLSA won't be a problem. Unless specifically targetted and filtered (or not understood) Paul
- [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Tom Ritter
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Adam Langley
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Yoav Nir
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Yoav Nir
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Ondrej Mikle
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Adam Langley
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? John Gilmore
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Yoav Nir
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Tony Finch
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Tony Finch
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Tony Finch
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Scott Schmit
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Ondrej Mikle
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Tony Finch
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Ondrej Mikle
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? John Gilmore
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? John Gilmore
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? John Gilmore
- [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the end-to… John Gilmore
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Mark Andrews
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Yoav Nir
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Henry Story
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Henry Story
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… SM
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Michael Richardson
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Mark Andrews
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Phillip Hallam-Baker