Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer?
Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> Tue, 15 May 2012 20:00 UTC
Return-Path: <warren@kumari.net>
X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix)
with ESMTP id 92A4B21F87EA for <dane@ietfa.amsl.com>;
Tue, 15 May 2012 13:00:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -106.07
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.07 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.529,
BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com
[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l3Gkl+BH+p5r for
<dane@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 15 May 2012 13:00:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from vimes.kumari.net (vimes.kumari.net [198.186.192.250]) by
ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1669F21F8781 for <dane@ietf.org>;
Tue, 15 May 2012 13:00:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.0.12] (unknown [64.13.52.115]) by vimes.kumari.net
(Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 499E91B402F8; Tue, 15 May 2012 16:00:35 -0400 (EDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
From: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
In-Reply-To: <0A5761EE-24D2-4D75-8F9B-5F8AF3B54C61@icsi.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 16:01:11 -0400
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <9846723D-F255-480B-A014-5CAA95FC365F@kumari.net>
References: <CABcZeBMY26xrfvAx=UsYN2XnuONZ2vPy9tNwHQALudd=yQDvgA@mail.gmail.com>
<643D87CD-D01E-47B8-82E5-D3F57D50C80B@vpnc.org>
<CABcZeBPCYNV=i5rsNt_QDDE2hY+8Tw4izovAVEFjYc=ESJst+Q@mail.gmail.com>
<8B30DD88-3AB5-4ED4-BDE6-87E50F60D8D3@vpnc.org>
<A0B2E24D-63C8-4CFB-AA99-4BD65EB76739@kumari.net>
<0A5761EE-24D2-4D75-8F9B-5F8AF3B54C61@icsi.berkeley.edu>
To: Nicholas Weaver <nweaver@icsi.berkeley.edu>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257)
Cc: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>, dane@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer?
X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities <dane.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dane>,
<mailto:dane-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dane>
List-Post: <mailto:dane@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dane-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane>,
<mailto:dane-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 20:00:41 -0000
On May 15, 2012, at 3:57 PM, Nicholas Weaver wrote: > > On May 15, 2012, at 12:32 PM, Warren Kumari wrote: >> This may be my fault -- a long time back (in this thread) I proposed having implmentations default to not-strict and then, in a few years (once there is less DNSSEC breakage by CPE, etc), vendors would turn the knob to strict mode. Educated / security concious users would also be able to turn the knob if they so desired. >> >> This was just an idea, and perhaps a bad one! > > CPE bugs should be regarded as "Forever Day". Yes, there are likely to be broken CPE for a really long time, but a: the percentage should be dropping over time (years) and b: other brokenness should also be decreasing over time. > > Instead, any client-side DNSSEC application must take pains to both map the brokenness and be prepared to work around it, including: bypassing the configured recursive resolver to use a DNSSEC passing external resolver or just fetching directly, switching to TCP, and even connecting to DNSSEC passing resolvers which are configured to use a non-standard port. These are all options, but way outside of what we can (or should) describe in this document… W
- [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Tom Ritter
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Adam Langley
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Yoav Nir
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Yoav Nir
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Ondrej Mikle
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Adam Langley
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? John Gilmore
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Yoav Nir
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Tony Finch
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Tony Finch
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Tony Finch
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Scott Schmit
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Ondrej Mikle
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Tony Finch
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Ondrej Mikle
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? John Gilmore
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? John Gilmore
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? John Gilmore
- [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the end-to… John Gilmore
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Mark Andrews
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Martin Rex
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Yoav Nir
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Henry Story
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Henry Story
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… SM
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Michael Richardson
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dane] Behavior in the face of no answer? Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Mark Andrews
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] Network errors ARE attacks - on the en… Phillip Hallam-Baker