Re: [dane] Need better opportunistic terminology
Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Fri, 07 March 2014 09:35 UTC
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
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Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 04:35:06 -0500
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Subject: Re: [dane] Need better opportunistic terminology
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Viktor Dukhovni <viktor1dane@dukhovni.org> wrote: > So you might ask what was the word "opportunistic" doing in our > avant-garde use of the term "opportunistic DANE TLS"? The answer is > that as with (pre-DANE) opportunistic TLS, the client is willing to > send in the clear to any server for which no "secure" TLSA records are > available. > Thus, until the happy future when a significant fraction of domains are > DNSSEC signed, and their MX hosts are accompanied by DNSSEC-validated > "secure" TLSA records, in practice the protocol is essentially the same > as with (pre-DANE) opportunistic TLS. The client employs the best > security level available (including cleartext). And, in particular, I think that "opportunistics TLS" interoperates with "opportunistics DANE TLS". The two sides don't have to have to known each other's policies. > So Phillip is quite right that DANE gets us stronger semantics, but I > would argue, that because the actual security posture is *conditional* > on published receiving system capabilities, from the perspective of the > sending system, this is just a "hardened" version of opportunistic TLS > where, for just some destinations not known to the sender in advance, > MITM attacks cannot trivially downgrade senders to plaintext or > compromise transport integrity or confidentiality. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ -- Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting for hire =-
- Re: [dane] Need better opportunistic terminology Viktor Dukhovni
- [dane] Need better opportunistic terminology Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Joe Touch
- Re: [dane] Need better opportunistic terminology Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] Need better opportunistic terminology Michael Richardson
- Re: [dane] Need better opportunistic terminology Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Stephen Kent
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Joe Touch
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Joe Touch
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Michael Richardson
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Peter Palfrader
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Tony Finch
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Paul Lambert
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Stephen Kent
- Re: [dane] Need better opportunistic terminology Tony Finch
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Joe Touch
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Nico Williams
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Joe Touch
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Joe Touch
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Michael Richardson
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Michael Richardson
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Stephen Kent
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Stephen Kent
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Joe Touch
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Derek Atkins
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Paul Lambert
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Derek Atkins
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Nico Williams
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Tony Finch
- Re: [dane] [saag] Need better opportunistic termi… Joe Touch