[dane] Please help to remediate broken DNSSEC hosting

Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org> Thu, 20 November 2014 06:29 UTC

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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 06:29:42 +0000
From: Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org>
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Subject: [dane] Please help to remediate broken DNSSEC hosting
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On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 10:55:31PM +0000, Dan York wrote:

> Feedback is very definitely welcome... I'm not intending anything
> with this document other than using it as a catalyst for discussions.

Dan, here's something you may be able to help with.

A number of large DNS hosting providers have enabled DNSSEC support,
but are using nameserver software that is not compatible with the
specification with respect to authenticated denial of existence.

In particular, given a zone containing the RRsets below

    *.example.com.	IN A|CNAME|... RDATA
    example.com.	IN MX 0 mail.example.com.
    mail.example.com.	IN A

A query for the non-existent "_25._tcp.mail.example.com" is thrown
off by the wildcard record, which has other data, but has no TLSA
RRs, and returns "NODATA" rather than "NXDOMAIN".  So TLSA queries
for such hosted domains SERVFAIL, and mail delivery to these domains
breaks from DANE-enabled MTAs.

    DNS provider     Example domain
    forpsi.cz        gigacomputer.cz
    forpsi.cz        websurf.cz
    hosting2go.nl    flashpatterns.nl
    hosting2go.nl    informatieplatform.nl
    hostnet.nl       bergsalaenigma.nl
    hostnet.nl       brandsupply.nl
    hostnet.nl       expert.nl
    hostnet.nl       foodness.nl
    hostnet.nl       ikkijkonline.nl
    hostnet.nl       leestrainer.nl
    hostnet.nl       studeersnel.nl
    transip.nl       aanbodpagina.nl
    transip.nl       androidworld.nl
    transip.nl       bitonic.nl
    transip.nl       codingunit.com
    transip.nl       dresscode.nl
    transip.nl       fonq.nl
    transip.nl       gamesync.nl
    transip.nl       headliner.nl
    transip.nl       icheckmovies.com
    transip.nl       kinderspiele.de
    transip.nl       mediumchat.nl
    transip.nl       notprovided.eu
    transip.nl       performance.nl
    transip.nl       redskillz.nl
    transip.nl       refdag.nl
    transip.nl       seoshop.nl
    transip.nl       trendstats.nl
    transip.nl       webshopapp.com
    transip.nl       webwinkelsoftware.nl
    transip.nl       wrts.nl
    transip.nl       zipzoo.nl

For example:

    zipzoo.nl. IN MX 10 mail.zipzoo.nl.
    mail.zipzoo.nl. IN A
    mail.zipzoo.nl. IN AAAA 2a01:7c8:eb:0:95:170:70:251
    ;; _25._tcp.mail.zipzoo.nl IN TLSA ?: SERVFAIL

The presence of such broken domains can deter deployment.  Can the
"Deploy360" effort coordinate remediation?  Such hosting sites must
do one of the below to avoid breaking DANE TLSA (at least for SMTP):

  * Deploy a non-broken nameserver.

  * Create kludgey defensive records that make the NODATA response

    _25._tcp.mail.zipzoo.nl IN TXT "No TLSA RRs here"

  * Remove the zone's wildcard RRs.

  * Work with the domain owner to remove the DS records for
    the zone making it "insecure".

I don't have the cycles to interface with each hosting provider
and domain owner myself.  We to get the message out to DNS hosting
providers that their software needs to be a robust DNSSEC
implementation, not an ad-hoc patch-set.  At least in the case
of forpsi.cz, I know they're using djbdns, which does not have
fully functional DNSSEC support.

On a related note, some nameservers are failing to provide proof
of the non-existence of a "*._tcp" wildcard, along with the NXDOMAIN
reply for "_25._tcp".

  fuhrt.de.               IN      NS      ns2.remotedienst.de.
  fuhrt.de.               IN      NS      ns1.remotedienst.de.
  fuhrt.de.               IN      MX      10 fuhrt.de.
  ;; _25._tcp.fuhrt.de    IN      TLSA    ?: SERVFAIL

On the other hand for other domains, some sort of firewall or
nameserver bug causes "TLSA" queries to often be simply dropped,
while "A" queries for the same node return NXDOMAIN:


So I'm running into a non-trivial fraction of signed domains for
which DNSSEC is not working right, and DANE will run into interop
problems.  Can you do anything to help.  My basic plea is:

      * Do it right

but failing that:

      * Don't do it at all.

Neither DNSSEC nor DANE should be fashion statements about how
"cool" a domain is.  These should only be deployed when thoroughly
tested and the ongoing operational responsibilities are under

Finally, while "dnsviz.net" provides the most detailed information
I've found at any testing site, its visual nature and the requirement
to "mouse-over" things to get the key details is often a distraction,
while due to space constraints, the text is often terse and difficult
to understand.

I'm looking for better tools, that non-cryptically explain what is
wrong a query response fails to validate.  A command-line tool I
can run locally would be great, the web version can be for reports
to remote admins so they can use the same tool to check that they've
fixed the problem without needing to install anything.