Re: [Dart] [AVTCORE] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02
"Black, David" <david.black@emc.com> Fri, 22 August 2014 01:06 UTC
Return-Path: <david.black@emc.com>
X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54EDC1A8750; Thu, 21 Aug 2014 18:06:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.969
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.969 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vZXVwBrQrENy; Thu, 21 Aug 2014 18:06:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailuogwhop.emc.com (mailuogwhop.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 657CC1A875D; Thu, 21 Aug 2014 18:06:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from maildlpprd06.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd06.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.38]) by mailuogwprd03.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s7M16PgY030208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Aug 2014 21:06:26 -0400
X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd03.lss.emc.com s7M16PgY030208
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1408669586; bh=Disu6cMSI9TFCBZIAWZ82n6fxOs=; h=From:To:CC:Date:Subject:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=bWG/e1XBGk+coo858wGhPr8QaVD2e2Sd5gp50ozfkaC6aGzQYi5e2BGnu7wx/Us96 gt+EVqjZil4ZFf4m+kgkvOnYWl8KLfKLw9xZ68O9g2cSXZ6g6+oE+AmR+T6ywpbBro q4tSyGXbjLNr6vu7Tfxu5smkxKEWVFj8CvrdNJXs=
X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd03.lss.emc.com s7M16PgY030208
Received: from mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.24]) by maildlpprd06.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Thu, 21 Aug 2014 21:06:12 -0400
Received: from mxhub33.corp.emc.com (mxhub33.corp.emc.com [10.254.93.81]) by mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s7M16GqV012510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Aug 2014 21:06:16 -0400
Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.175]) by mxhub33.corp.emc.com ([::1]) with mapi; Thu, 21 Aug 2014 21:06:16 -0400
From: "Black, David" <david.black@emc.com>
To: Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>, Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org>
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 21:06:14 -0400
Thread-Topic: [Dart] [AVTCORE] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02
Thread-Index: Ac+7JfSVp64hNJGjTlKd7hFJVjR6pwCfmqOw
Message-ID: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE712077BB42962@MX15A.corp.emc.com>
References: <B92C2A41-5596-4874-B3B7-D765A3E76D5E@nostrum.com> <941BB385-72AA-42F2-A40C-0C1ACC3D2334@nostrum.com> <3E113BE1-6DD3-4473-8C46-9507EABD6472@csperkins.org> <DC65C71D-6E71-4905-A38C-30456E725C6F@nostrum.com>
In-Reply-To: <DC65C71D-6E71-4905-A38C-30456E725C6F@nostrum.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
acceptlanguage: en-US
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com
X-RSA-Classifications: DLM_1, public
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/0GkY-7bka7jdqDcnNZ5ua3H00d4
Cc: "draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org>, "Black, David" <david.black@emc.com>, "dart@ietf.org" <dart@ietf.org>, "avt@ietf.org WG" <avt@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Dart] [AVTCORE] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02
X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" <dart.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dart>, <mailto:dart-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dart/>
List-Post: <mailto:dart@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dart-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart>, <mailto:dart-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 01:06:41 -0000
Colin - many thanks for the review. I'll pick up your proposed changes, perhaps with minor edits. Ben, > >> 3. The RTP and RTCP traffic can be multiplexed with other protocols > >> via UDP encapsulation over a common pair of UDP ports as described > >> in [RFC5764] as updated by > >> [I-D.petithuguenin-avtcore-rfc5764-mux-fixes]; and > > Can we clarify what "other protocols" are expected? Are we just talking about > WebRTC data-channels over SCTP/DTLS, or other things? If the latter, are we > talking things we expect to do today, or in immediate futures, or extensions > that might happen someday? WebRTC will only multiplex its data channels, and this numbered list is about WebRTC, so this text should focus on those data channels - I'll revise the draft accordingly. Other text elsewhere in the draft is broader (e.g., SCTP/UDP without DTLS, which is of interest, even though WebRTC always uses DTLS). Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Campbell > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 4:48 PM > To: Colin Perkins > Cc: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org; dart@ietf.org; avt@ietf.org > WG > Subject: Re: [Dart] [AVTCORE] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 > > Hi, > > I concur with all of Colin's comments, save one question below: > > On Aug 18, 2014, at 10:17 AM, Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > [I'm not on the DART list, so please cc me in replies] > > > > This draft looks good overall, but I did have some comments, primarily about > the discussion of RTP multiplexing. > > > > The four bullet points in Section 2.1 that follow "The RTCWEB protocol suit > encompasses a number of forms of multiplexing" seem to confuse RTP sessions, > > RTCP, and transport-layer flows. I suggest they be changed to: > > > >> The RTP streams that comprise a WebRTC session can be multiplexed > >> together in a number of ways: > >> > >> 1. Individual source streams are carried in one or more individual > >> RTP streams. These RTP streams can be multiplexed onto a single > >> transport-layer flow or sent as separate transport-layer flows. > >> This memo only considers the case where the RTP streams are to be > >> multiplexed onto a single transport-layer flow, forming a single > >> RTP session; > >> > >> 2. The RTP Control Protocol (RTCP) [RFC3550] may be multiplexed onto > >> the same transport-layer flow as the RTP stream with which it is > >> associated, as described in [RFC5761], or it may be sent on a > >> separate transport-layer flow; > >> > >> 3. The RTP and RTCP traffic can be multiplexed with other protocols > >> via UDP encapsulation over a common pair of UDP ports as described > >> in [RFC5764] as updated by > >> [I-D.petithuguenin-avtcore-rfc5764-mux-fixes]; and > > Can we clarify what "other protocols" are expected? Are we just talking about > WebRTC data-channels over SCTP/DTLS, or other things? If the latter, are we > talking things we expect to do today, or in immediate futures, or extensions > that might happen someday? > > >> > >> 4. The data may be further encapsulated via STUN [RFC5389] and TURN > >> [RFC5766] for NAT (Network Address Translator) traversal. > > > > In the following paragraph (penultimate paragraph in Section 2.1), I suggest > changing "unidirectional UDP packet flow" to "transport-layer flow" since it > will not be unidirectional (since RTCP also flows in the reverse direction), > and might not use UDP. > > > > In the first paragraph of section 2.2, I suggest changing "multiplexed over > RTP sessions" to "multiplexed in a single RTP session" and "multiplexing of > source streams in RTP sessions" to "multiplexing of source streams in a single > RTP session". > > > > In Section 6, the second bullet point refers to "an RTCP session". There is > no such thing. Rather, within a single RTP session there are RTCP packets sent > that give information about the RTP streams that are being sent, and that > report on the reception quality of RTP streams being received. Using a single > PHB and DSCP for all RTCP packets within an RTP session might make sense, but > it's important to note that one role of RTCP is to provide an estimate of the > round-trip time seen by the media, so the PHB/DSCP will have to be chosen with > care to avoid biasing that estimate too much. > > > > Editorial: the protocol is called WebRTC, but the working group is RTCWEB. > Accordingly, I think all instances of "RTCWEB" in this draft need to change to > "WebRTC". > > > > Cheers, > > Colin > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9 Aug 2014, at 19:48, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> The DART working group has started a last call for draft-ietf-dart-dscp- > rtp-02, ending on August 22. This informational draft describes considerations > for the use of DiffServ code points in situations where one multiplexes > multiple RTP packet streams, and potentially other protocol streams, that > share the same 5-tuple. > >> > >> Since this draft is likely of interest to several working groups, I would > like to solicit additional reviews from participants of TSVWG, AVTCORE, > MMUSIC, CLUE, RTCWEB, and RMCAT. Please send any feedback (including feedback > to the effect of "this is ready to progress") to the DART working group > mailing list. > >> > >> Thanks! > >> > >> Ben. > >> > >> Begin forwarded message: > >> > >>> Resent-From: draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.org > >>> From: Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> > >>> Subject: WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 > >>> Date: August 9, 2014 at 12:50:16 PM CDT > >>> Resent-To: ben@nostrum.com, david.black@emc.com, paulej@packetizer.com > >>> To: dart@ietf.org > >>> Cc: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org, mls.ietf@gmail.com, > Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> > >>> > >>> This is a DART Working Group Last Call of draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02. > It's available on the data tracker at the following URL: > >>> > >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp/ > >>> > >>> The WGLC will conclude on 22 August, 2014. Please send your comments to > the authors and the DART mailing list. If you've reviewed it and think it's > good to go, please say so. > >>> > >>> Thanks! > >>> > >>> Ben. > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance > >> avt@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt > > > > > > > > -- > > Colin Perkins > > http://csperkins.org/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dart mailing list > Dart@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart
- [Dart] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 Ben Campbell
- Re: [Dart] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 Ruediger.Geib
- Re: [Dart] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 Black, David
- Re: [Dart] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Dart] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 Ruediger.Geib
- Re: [Dart] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Dart] [rtcweb] Fwd: WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-ds… Dave Taht
- Re: [Dart] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 Ruediger.Geib
- [Dart] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [Dart] [rtcweb] Fwd: WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-ds… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Dart] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 Ruediger.Geib
- Re: [Dart] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 gorry
- Re: [Dart] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Dart] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 Ruediger.Geib
- Re: [Dart] [AVTCORE] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-r… Colin Perkins
- Re: [Dart] [AVTCORE] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-r… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Dart] [AVTCORE] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-r… Black, David
- Re: [Dart] WGLC: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-02 Ben Campbell