Re: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00
<Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de> Mon, 16 June 2014 06:54 UTC
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From: Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de
To: david.black@emc.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 08:54:04 +0200
Thread-Topic: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00
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Subject: Re: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00
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Hi David, to make sure we mean the same thing on AF, re-marking and PHB consumption: If a network provider just supports aggregated classes and that provider must use DSCP based classification then Incoming AF4n -> outgoing AF4 with a cost of 1 local PHB is (for example): Incoming DSCP 100 010 -> outgoing DSCP 100 010 PHB AF41 Incoming DSCP 100 100 -> outgoing DSCP 100 010 PHB AF41 Incoming DSCP 100 110 -> outgoing DSCP 100 010 PHB AF41 The other option, with a cost of 3 local PHBs is Incoming DSCP 100 010 -> outgoing DSCP 100 010 PHB AF41 Incoming DSCP 100 100 -> outgoing DSCP 100 100 PHB AF42 Incoming DSCP 100 110 -> outgoing DSCP 100 110 PHB AF43 If there was an additional possibility to classify based on DSCP bits 0-2, the second option can be configured with a cost of 1 local PHB (results in an aggregate / single local PHB for the provider and 3 DSCPs for an application or a device closer to the network edge). Regards, Ruediger -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Black, David [mailto:david.black@emc.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Juni 2014 15:24 An: Geib, Rüdiger Cc: dart@ietf.org Betreff: RE: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00 Hi Ruediger Many thanks for the additional information. I have a few comments: > - there used to be a possibility to ignore the lower DSCP > bits 3-6, but there's no standard to that. Some vendors > removed this option and with IPv6, each PHB must be > classified and completely configured individually by DSCP. That's a good thing, since that behavior (per DSCP traffic handling) is a core element of the DiffServ architecture, and is required by RFC 2474 (Section 3). > Please be aware, if it comes to a re-write, a single DSCP > is set for all incoming DSCPs matching this PHB. Keep in > mind the possible restrictions on the number of PHBs. Full AF support should classify all 3 PHBs that make up an AF class into a single aggregate on the node, with remarking applied to that aggregate, not DSCP by DSCP. > If end-to-end DiffServ PHBs are what you look for, standardize what is > really required and be clear on how to use it. As noted earlier, that's not the goal of the dart WG, as I understand it. I believe the goal of this short term WG is to describe what exists and provide guidance on how to use it, particularly for RTCWEB. Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de [mailto:Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de] > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 4:05 AM > To: Black, David > Cc: dart@ietf.org > Subject: AW: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00 > > Hi David, > > to answer the question related to implementations and configurations > at least from the viewpoint of one network provider > > - you can support a multi-vendor strategy. This makes sense > from an economical point of view, but limits > deployments to the minimum common denominator. > > - to configure a PHB, there are classifiers, policers, > schedulers, AQM and re-markers. > Implementations differ to some aspects (e.g. on > supported number of classes and ingress/egress remarking). > Limits like less than 20 PHBs may apply today. > I'd be interested, whether there are offers of any > complete AF class as part of a single product. > > - there used to be a possibility to ignore the lower DSCP > bits 3-6, but there's no standard to that. Some vendors > removed this option and with IPv6, each PHB must be > classified and completely configured individually by DSCP. > Please be aware, if it comes to a re-write, a single DSCP > is set for all incoming DSCPs matching this PHB. Keep in > mind the possible restrictions on the number of PHBs. > > - many IP/MPLS backbone networks and also many Ethernet > based access networks support 3-4 PHBs for retail services. > I'm not aware of any two providers using exactly the > same DSCPs. I'm also not aware of any two standards using fully > matching DSCPs for their PHBs (IETF, GSMA, MEF). > > - There's something I'd call enterprise philosophy, that is > making use of a large set of internal PHBs. I never saw > any of these philosophies remotely resembling the other. > PHBs or classes are used to identify products, > access types, stream types and so on. These usually just > consume PHBs with sometimes at best loose relation to > standards. > > If end-to-end DiffServ PHBs are what you look for, standardise what is > really required and be clear on how to use it. If a network provider > is expected to support these PHBs, there must be a convincing reason > to do so. Take EF as an example for a well specified DiffServ standard. > > Regards, > > Ruediger > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von Black, David > Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Juni 2014 07:43 > An: Harald Alvestrand; dart@ietf.org > Betreff: Re: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00 > > Harald, > > Many thanks for the review and commentary, especially for the discussion > of real time traffic sensitivity to reordering. This note is an attempt > to pick up non-editorial items that haven't been dealt with in other > messages on the list. I see four of them: > > RG: [snip] > > [4] > > 2.4 DSCP remarking > > > > The discussion of token-bucket-based remarkers leaves me a bit confused. > > To me, it's obvious (?) that token-bucket-based remarkers would > > operate in color-blind mode on a network boundary, and in > > color-sensitive mode only when they had assurance that incoming > > markings were already indicating color. Thus, flows from an end-user > > system should only hit color-blind remarkers; the real question is: > > will a color-blind remarker use the incoming DSCP codepoint to decide > > which of a group of remarking treatments it chooses for the packets? > > I'm not sure about the "obvious" point - anyone care to comment on what's > actually deployed/configured in practice? > > The answer to the final question about choice of remarking treatment is > "yes" although the PHBs in an AF class should receive the same treatment. > The fact that the question was asked suggests that the discussion of > traffic classifiers needs some additional clarity and explanation. > > Thanks, > --David >
- [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00 Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00 Dan York
- Re: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00 Ben Campbell
- Re: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00 Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00 Black, David
- Re: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00 Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00 Black, David
- Re: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00 Ruediger.Geib
- Re: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00 Black, David
- Re: [Dart] multiplexing different media types Paul E. Jones
- Re: [Dart] multiplexing different media types (wa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [Dart] multiplexing different media types Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [Dart] multiplexing different media types Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [Dart] multiplexing different media types Paul E. Jones
- Re: [Dart] multiplexing different media types Paul E. Jones
- Re: [Dart] multiplexing different media types Paul E. Jones
- Re: [Dart] Commentary on draft-york-00 Ruediger.Geib
- Re: [Dart] multiplexing different media types Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [Dart] multiplexing different media types Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Dart] multiplexing different media types Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Dart] multiplexing different media types Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Dart] multiplexing different media types Eric Rescorla