Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and private/anonymous lists
"Jim Schaad" <ietf@augustcellars.com> Wed, 08 December 2010 21:59 UTC
Return-Path: <ietf@augustcellars.com>
X-Original-To: datatracker-rqmts@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: datatracker-rqmts@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE95E3A686B for <datatracker-rqmts@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 8 Dec 2010 13:59:40 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.429
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.429 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.057, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lCED2dI0943N for <datatracker-rqmts@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 8 Dec 2010 13:59:39 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A9A63A689F for <datatracker-rqmts@ietf.org>; Wed, 8 Dec 2010 13:59:39 -0800 (PST)
Received: from TITUS (unknown [207.202.179.27]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jimsch@nwlink.com) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A725C6EF75; Wed, 8 Dec 2010 14:01:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>
To: 'Russ Housley' <housley@vigilsec.com>, 'Henrik Levkowetz' <henrik@levkowetz.com>
References: <p0624081bc9249d506bb8@[10.20.30.150]> <4CFF5D2E.1080507@levkowetz.com> <4CFFD7E2.7060307@vigilsec.com>
In-Reply-To: <4CFFD7E2.7060307@vigilsec.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2010 14:15:59 -0800
Message-ID: <015d01cb9725$7fba21c0$7f2e6540$@augustcellars.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0
Thread-Index: AQJ260A0gDDsotZc4IfkOuXcUkJNOQFJSwvjAsZA1kySH/f2UA==
Content-Language: en-us
Cc: datatracker-rqmts@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and private/anonymous lists
X-BeenThere: datatracker-rqmts@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <datatracker-rqmts.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/datatracker-rqmts>, <mailto:datatracker-rqmts-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/datatracker-rqmts>
List-Post: <mailto:datatracker-rqmts@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:datatracker-rqmts-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/datatracker-rqmts>, <mailto:datatracker-rqmts-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2010 21:59:40 -0000
Russ, I don't think you really want to restrict me to a single list. This would just require that I create multiple logins in order to get multiple lists. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: datatracker-rqmts-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:datatracker-rqmts- > bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Russ Housley > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:09 AM > To: Henrik Levkowetz > Cc: datatracker-rqmts@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and private/anonymous lists > > Henrik: > > I agree that lists of lists is causing more complexity than expected. I think that > putting it aside for now is a good choice. > > I wonder if it would be easier to start with two kinds of lists: > -- public-and-published > -- private-and-unpublished > > The public-and-published are used to follow the documents associated with a > particular topic. They have a public owner that has agreed to add and remove > documents as appropriate. This is like the web page that shows the possible > WG and non-WG mail lists that are available to IETF participants. > > The private-and-unpublished are part of a single user's preferences. > They are not shared, and they are owned by that user. Each user gets one and > only one of them. > > Russ > > On 12/8/2010 5:25 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > > > Looking this over, both specification and implementation of these > > notification specifications ('lists') seems to becoming more and more > > complex, and I'm not convinced that the complexity buys us a lot. The > > whole issue comes about because of the decision that people should be > > able to include another list in their notification list. > > > > I would like to do away with the whole complexity of this by saying > > (at least for this round -- we can always re-open this again when we > > have some practical experience with the first implementation) -- by > > saying that lists can't include other lists, and all lists are > > anonymous and unpublished. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Henrik > > > > On 2010-12-08 03:36 Paul Hoffman said: > >> Greetings again. It's time to spin up this list again, and a few people have > told me that specifying how public lists are publicly-readable and how > private/anonymous lists are created and managed will unblock a bunch of > other open issues. There was a lot of interest in these topics at the mic in > Beijing. > >> > >> The current text is below. This is just starting text, and it doesn't cover the > idea that some private/anonymous lists might have publicly-readable > counterparts if the list owner wants. > >> > >> So, please say what you think should be done here. Do you have a > preference between private and anonymous? Do you have ideas for public lists? > >> > >> To facilitate the discussion, there will be a WebEx-based telechat on Friday, > December 17. Information on that comes in the next message. If we have great > consensus before the telechat, we can use that time to move on other open > issues. > >> > >> --Paul Hoffman > >> > >> ====================================== > >> > >> 2.1.3. Requirement: Some lists must be able to be private or > >> anonymous > >> > >> Seeing a list of drafts that covers multiple areas of interest can > >> tell you something about the person who created the list. For > >> example, you might be able to guess that they might be looking for a > >> job in a different field by looking at their list of drafts of > >> interest. Of course, anyone can follow individual drafts today > >> without having that be exposed; however, following a particular group > >> of drafts can reveal information about a person. > >> > >> There is a open issue about whether lists should be default be > >> private/anonymous or public, and how that default should be manifest > >> in the eventual UI for creating lists. > >> > >> The first proposed methods that might keep lists private/anonymous > >> are: > >> > >> o Private lists might only be available using passwords or some > >> other common authentication mechanism. This would require that > >> the Datatracker have a subscription process for users that could > >> assign passwords, and a per-user process for adding lists to a > >> user account. (If the current Datatracker username and login > >> scheme is used, the interface needs to be improved so that getting > >> a new login, and changing one's password, are significantly > >> easier.) > >> o Anonymous lists might be assigned random URLs from a very large > >> (2^128) namespace, and the user who creates a list does not tell > >> others the assigned URL. This method makes it impossible for > >> someone to search the entire set of assigned lists. Given that > >> the URLs for lists are most likely going to be copy-and-pasted > >> anyway, having long random strings in the list's URL is not an > >> impediment. > >> > >> 2.1.4. Requirement: It must be easy for IETF leadership and individuals > >> to make lists they create publicly-readable > >> > >> Private or anonymous lists are fine for individuals, but publicly- > >> readable lists can magnify the value to the whole community. In > >> fact, some early commenters on this document emphasized that > >> publicly-readable lists will be more valuable to the IETF than > >> helping individuals track documents that are only of interest to > >> them. > >> > >> Probably the easiest method to implement publicly-readable lists is > >> to make them read-only aliases for private or anonymous lists. This > >> would allow the list originators to control the contents of the list > >> as normal, but also allow anyone to view the results in the > >> Datatracker and/or subscribe to notifications. There may be other > >> methods that would also make sense, and this section might change in > >> the future. > >> > >> Publicly-readable lists should have short URLs that can be > >> transcribed without relying on copy-and-paste. The names in the URLs > >> for lists that are associated with IETF activities (initially, the > >> lists created by WG chairs and ADs) can be mnemonic, but other public > >> lists should have names that are not mnemonic in order to prevent > >> name-squatting. > >> > >> It is important to note that publicly-readable lists can only be > >> changed by the owners. Allowing many people to change the contents > >> of a list would probably lead to lists that are not very useful to > >> typical users. > >> > >> Proposed later requirements include having the Datatracker list all > >> of the publicly-readable lists (or certainly at least the ones > >> associated with IETF activities), and having links from WG pages in > >> Datatracker to the publicly-readable lists maintained by the WG > >> chairs. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> datatracker-rqmts mailing list > >> datatracker-rqmts@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/datatracker-rqmts > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > datatracker-rqmts mailing list > > datatracker-rqmts@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/datatracker-rqmts > > > _______________________________________________ > datatracker-rqmts mailing list > datatracker-rqmts@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/datatracker-rqmts
- [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and private… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and pri… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and pri… Russ Housley
- Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and pri… Jim Schaad
- Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and pri… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and pri… Russ Housley
- Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and pri… Jim Schaad
- Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and pri… Jim Schaad
- Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and pri… Tero Kivinen
- Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and pri… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and pri… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and pri… Russ Housley
- Re: [datatracker-rqmts] Publicly-readable and pri… Paul Hoffman