Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-03
Peter Goldstein <peter@valimail.com> Sat, 08 July 2017 17:52 UTC
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From: Peter Goldstein <peter@valimail.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 10:52:00 -0700
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To: Scott Kitterman <sklist@kitterman.com>
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Subject: Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-03
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I agree with Scott. I'm not sure what all this talk about future proofing is about. In this case hashing is a hack to work around DNS crudware that doesn't properly support strings in excess of 255 bytes. Unless I'm misreading RFC 8032 (certainly possible), the base 64 encoded public key itself for Ed25519 is going to be just 64 characters. Throw in the version string and a couple of other tags and we'll be lucky to hit a max size of 90 octets for the record. That's well below the 255 byte limit imposed by DNS crudware. Even if future signature algorithms had 2x or 3x bytes in the key, we'd still come in under the 255 byte limit. Using a fingerprinted representation for Ed25519 just creates more work with absolutely no benefit. With fingerprinting the key itself needs to be included in every single email message (consuming space) and the fingerprint check needs to be done on each DKIM check (consuming time/CPU). And the whole verification process is just more complex. We might, at some point in the future, have a non-RSA algorithm that requires records that exceed 255 bytes. But that's by no means a given, or even a likelihood. And per Scott's email, in that case we're still going to need to define a new RFC, write new code, etc. Best, Peter On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 3:00 AM, Scott Kitterman <sklist@kitterman.com> wrote: > > > On July 8, 2017 3:40:50 AM EDT, Jon Callas <jon@callas.org> wrote: > > > >> On Jul 7, 2017, at 7:24 PM, Salz, Rich <rsalz@akamai.com> wrote: > >> > >>> For what it's worth, I agree with Jim and Ekr. Hashing is just fine. > >> > >> Is it fine, or is it a required or just good? > > > >Fine. Into just good. > > > >> > >> Nobody is saying there is anything wrong with hashing. Several are > >saying that, given the limitations of some DNS deployments, it is > >useful to avoid the indirection and just put the key when we can. > > > >Yeah, I know. They've mentioned the limitations of some DNS > >implementations going back to the original DKIM work. It's true, but I > >tend to be on the side of just sucking it up and doing a big DNS query > >over TCP or whatever. > > > >I'm also with Jim Fenton that I think the fingerprints make things more > >future-proof, and I'd make some trivial encoding to put the algorithm > >along with it for even more future-proofing. > > Let's imagine we go down the path of hashing everything. When we want to > add another new algorithm, how does having hashed the ECC key record help? > > It will still need a new RFC to define the new algorithm usage. > > It will still need new code to use the new algorithm. > > What future proofing does it buy? > > Also, you don't need to futz with the DNS record format to specify the > algorithm. That's already in the signature, so the verifier has that > information before they even do the DNS lookup. > > Scott K > > _______________________________________________ > Dcrup mailing list > Dcrup@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup > -- [image: logo for sig file.png] Bringing Trust to Email Peter Goldstein | CTO & Co-Founder peter@valimail.com +1.415.793.5783
- [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-03 Martin Thomson
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Jim Fenton
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Jon Callas
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Jim Fenton
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Jon Callas
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Peter Goldstein
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… James Cloos
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Russ Housley
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… John Levine
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… John Levine
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… John Levine
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Russ Housley
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… John R Levine
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… John Levine
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… denis bider
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Peter Goldstein
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Peter Goldstein
- Re: [Dcrup] Review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypt… Eric Rescorla