Re: [Dcrup] rsa-sha1 proposals

Scott Kitterman <sklist@kitterman.com> Wed, 21 June 2017 00:43 UTC

Return-Path: <sklist@kitterman.com>
X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 052DA129516 for <dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 17:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.001
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=kitterman.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sWqcBDbNxDKp for <dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 17:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailout03.controlledmail.com (mailout03.controlledmail.com [208.43.65.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C2351294E1 for <dcrup@ietf.org>; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 17:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from android-df929938bd25e485.home.kitterman.com (static-72-81-252-22.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net [72.81.252.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailout03.controlledmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 10B88C400E6; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 19:43:44 -0500 (CDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=kitterman.com; s=201409; t=1498005824; bh=O2Yn7OpzOZX/OKemxuKemNTkpYFCjD8T+WunnNObadI=; h=Date:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:To:From:From; b=srKHS7iyrlH16x78RBhypZCOnKxgQMi2MvsAmQmGJ94ZPkG442k4z6ntL77Sm5cKR fVIcbl+CVBIb6lG8pMWb+tz2EzDYBcytSZ/M92rqVIUkeu1w2wqP7LSaHMTJ0m0aVr JNZ12xjHlYvVjz7eM15K+B33lNaS57XSjfWCO5XE=
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 00:43:43 +0000
In-Reply-To: <5949BCD7.4030207@isdg.net>
References: <20170620230641.18814.qmail@ary.lan> <5949ADA0.3050702@isdg.net> <CAOZAAfNhX0Z+V8Cm=L_mKXKeFQhh7u_gSAFYV65VmsMasL0X6A@mail.gmail.com> <66bc2692-7807-9e5c-329d-77c2759d89f1@bluepopcorn.net> <5949BCD7.4030207@isdg.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To: dcrup@ietf.org
From: Scott Kitterman <sklist@kitterman.com>
Message-ID: <19DDA93A-9A4F-44EC-9740-FF825DFF33FE@kitterman.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dcrup/quTw2buMRentJcyPqdNlxulU2U0>
Subject: Re: [Dcrup] rsa-sha1 proposals
X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update <dcrup.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dcrup>, <mailto:dcrup-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dcrup/>
List-Post: <mailto:dcrup@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dcrup-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup>, <mailto:dcrup-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 00:43:49 -0000

On June 20, 2017 8:24:55 PM EDT, Hector Santos <hsantos@isdg.net> wrote:
>
>On 6/20/2017 7:53 PM, Jim Fenton wrote:
>
>> I agree that the document should say that signers MUST NOT sign using
>> SHA-1. Even though SHA-1 hasn't been broken seriously enough to be
>> exploitable in this application, it's good for us to be out in front
>> of that.
>>
>> Several people have said that it doesn't matter whether we say MUST
>> NOT verify rsa-sha1 or SHOULD NOT verify rsa-sha1. That may very well
>> be true, but we shouldn't be in the habit of saying MUST NOT for
>> something that is actively being used and is not currently
>> exploitable. We should be paying at least lip service to
>> interoperability by saying MUST NOT sign prior to saying MUST NOT
>verify.
>>
>> Any signers that are concerned about downgrade attacks (bad actors
>> creating valid rsa-sha1 signatures somehow, despite the domain using
>> rsa-sha256) should put h=sha256 in their key records to close that
>> possibility.
>
>+1.
>
>If the document were to suggest "Keep in mind, future Verifiers MAY 
>NOT support SHA1"  then this may enough of an incentive for new and 
>old signers to begin avoiding SHA1, even for the smallest of DKIM 
>applications.
>
>The "higher coverage" verifier will most likely keep SHA1 simply to 
>avoid any future support issues. Therefore, it would really help via 
>policy to give the verifier what is to be expected.  The key "h=" 
>protocol information should be updated to help in this area.

I think just using the tag in key records operationally is all that's needed.

Also, when it comes to migration away from rsa-sha1, it looks like you're one of the ones with work to do:

DKIM-Signature: v=1; d=isdg.net; s=tms1; a=rsa-sha1;

Scott t