Re: [Dcrup] Is there anything this WG wants to do not yet in draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-01 ?
Peter Goldstein <peter@valimail.com> Tue, 20 June 2017 21:01 UTC
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From: Peter Goldstein <peter@valimail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:01:36 -0700
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To: Scott Kitterman <sklist@kitterman.com>, dcrup@ietf.org, "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com>
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Subject: Re: [Dcrup] Is there anything this WG wants to do not yet in draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-01 ?
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The -02 document looks basically good to me. The new EdDSA and fingerprinting behavior seems well-defined and unambiguous. And the guidance on minimum key length seems fine. And the SHA-1 language is clear and unambiguous. My only question is whether there's any need or desire to support larger RSA key sizes (e.g. 4096)? I don't know of a use case that requires such support that couldn't be met by the use of EdDSA, but I wanted to make sure the question was considered by the WG. Best, Peter On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Scott Kitterman <sklist@kitterman.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 04:01:18 PM John R. Levine wrote: > > > I think it's still not clear where the group lies on how dead we should > > > kill rsa-sha1. I think the WG chairs are going to have to evaluate the > > > consensus and let us know. Once that's done, converging on the correct > > > wording should be ~easy (whether it ends up in my draft or John's). > > > > Given that we are not the Network Police, I don't see this as a very > > meaningful questions We can tell people not to sign with sha-1 or to > > verify sha-1 signatures, but we can't threaten them with penalties if > they > > ignore us. > > > > In practice, the known problems with sha-1 aren't yet very relevant to > > short lived signatures like DKIM's since the cost of finding a collision > > remains high, so signers can't be bothered to upgrade their signers. I > > looked at the last 1000 signed messages I got from non-spam bulkish > > mailers, and 354 of them still had sha1 signatures. They can't be > > bothered to upgrade, and the IETF has no leverage. > > > > At some point I expect one of the big gorillas will decide to stop > > accepting sha-1 and after a week of panic in the bulk mail community, > > they'll all patch their signers and we'll never see another sha-1 > > signature again. > > Right, and when the panic happens (which is, I agree, when this will change > for real) I'd like for the engineer getting beat up by his boss to be able > to > say in response to the "Argh! What should be do" question from the PHB [1] > "We > need to upgrade our DKIM like it says in RFC XXXX" [2]. I think what > you've > proposed covers that. > > Scott K > > > [1] The pointy haired boss (see Dilbert), not the other one. > [2] Followed by a mostly silent "Like I've been telling you for a year." > > _______________________________________________ > Dcrup mailing list > Dcrup@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup > -- [image: logo for sig file.png] Bringing Trust to Email Peter Goldstein | CTO & Co-Founder peter@valimail.com +1.415.793.5783
- [Dcrup] combo update draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto… John R Levine
- Re: [Dcrup] combo update draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-cr… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Dcrup] combo update draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-cr… John R Levine
- Re: [Dcrup] combo update draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-cr… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Dcrup] Is there anything this WG wants to do… John Levine
- Re: [Dcrup] Is there anything this WG wants to do… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Dcrup] Is there anything this WG wants to do… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Dcrup] Is there anything this WG wants to do… John R Levine
- Re: [Dcrup] Is there anything this WG wants to do… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Dcrup] Is there anything this WG wants to do… Jon Callas
- Re: [Dcrup] key rotation, was Is there anything t… John R Levine
- Re: [Dcrup] Is there anything this WG wants to do… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [Dcrup] Is there anything this WG wants to do… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [Dcrup] Is there anything this WG wants to do… John R. Levine
- Re: [Dcrup] Is there anything this WG wants to do… John R. Levine
- Re: [Dcrup] Is there anything this WG wants to do… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [Dcrup] Is there anything this WG wants to do… Peter Goldstein