Re: [decade] WG Action: Conclusion of Decoupled Application Data Enroute (decade)

"Y. Richard Yang" <yry@cs.yale.edu> Thu, 27 September 2012 23:44 UTC

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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 19:44:00 -0400
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From: "Y. Richard Yang" <yry@cs.yale.edu>
To: "Y. Richard Yang" <yry@cs.yale.edu>
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Cc: "decade@ietf.org" <decade@ietf.org>, Martin Stiemerling <martin.stiemerling@neclab.eu>
Subject: Re: [decade] WG Action: Conclusion of Decoupled Application Data Enroute (decade)
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On Thursday, September 27, 2012, Y. Richard Yang wrote:

>
>
> On Wednesday, September 26, 2012, Martin Stiemerling wrote:
>
>>
>>>       8.3 Distributed Resource Sharing Specification
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     REQUIREMENT(S):  A Provider MUST be able to indicate to its DECADE-
>>>         compatible server, without itself contacting the server, resource
>>>         control policies for a Consumer.  The DECADE-compatible server
>>>         MUST be able to authenticate the resource control policies.
>>>
>>
>> How can the provider indicate its policies to a DECADE server w/o
>> contacting the server? This is completely impossible!
>
>
> This is possible! A provider can indicate the policies in a token. Hence,
> the consumer contacts the server and the provider does not!
>
>
>>
>> Probably you can see from where I coming, by comparing the text in the
>> RATIONAL with the REQUIREMENT(S) text. While the rational gives a hint to
>> what is expected by this requirement, the requirement itself is not useful
>> at all.
>>
>
>
>> And, this requirement does still not say how this is done.
>
>
> I gave one example how abve. There can be other smart approaches that I
> may not foresee. The documents specify what but now how.
>
>
>> Is this done via the SDT or DRP or something else?
>>
>> Either way can work. Depend on the design.
>
>
>> This is an excellent example about what is wrong with the requirements
>> draft,
>
>
> I look it diferrently. This is an excellent example of giving
> requirements, but not limiting the design space!
>

Let me add to this. As a researcher, I am always impressed by human
ingeninuity.  As an example, in my today's lecture on wireless
networks/mobile computing, we discussed how to handle ISI. After so many
years, I am still impressed by the endless human ingenuity in handling the
problem, wave shaping, vertibi, ofdm, rake receiver... You learn to be
humble. One key research strategy in my group is also to come up with
surprising solutions. This approach works well and we are the few who
consistently publish in sigcomm, the most competitive networking
conference. Hence, in the requirement specification setting, we make sure
that it is possible, by coming up with a solution ourself, and then post
the requirement. We are humble, but not incapable. I am puzzled that you
did not ask these questions in your tenure as the AD so that we can
help/clarify. This is one piece of the puzzle why we were hugely surprised
by the unexpected closure.

Richard

>
>
>
>> why it has been pushed back to the WG, and why this is one piece of the
>> puzzle why the DECADE was closed.
>>
>>   Martin
>>
>> --
>> martin.stiemerling@neclab.eu
>>
>> NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited
>> Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL
>> Registered in England 283
>>
>