Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id (was RE: Please review the PALS/MPLS/DetNet Joint Session minutes)
Rajesh Pandey <simply.rpandey@gmail.com> Thu, 31 March 2022 09:10 UTC
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From: Rajesh Pandey <simply.rpandey@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 14:40:10 +0530
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To: bruno.decraene@orange.com
Cc: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, detnet WG <detnet@ietf.org>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id (was RE: Please review the PALS/MPLS/DetNet Joint Session minutes)
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Hi Bruno, Yes, how the EL value has been chosen does not concern the transit node. However, the value of EL does concern transit nodes. It doesn't break ELI/EL implementation but certainly makes it weaker. Consider an LSR node solely relying on EL and receiving most of the traffic over LAG/single virtual interface. - For a single LSR, 20 bits of entropy gets diluted by 40% (remaining 8 bits are the same for single flow) could cause weaker ECMP and LAG load balancing decisions. - With multiple LSR taken into consideration, it could cause traffic polarization potentially. Regards, Rajesh On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 1:14 PM <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote: > > - Transit […] How the EL value has been chosen. > > > > I meant to write : How the EL value has been chosen does not concern the > transit node. > > > > Sorry for the spam > > > > --Bruno > > > > > > > > Orange Restricted > > *From:* mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of * > bruno.decraene@orange.com > *Sent:* Thursday, March 31, 2022 9:38 AM > *To:* John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net> > *Cc:* mpls <mpls@ietf.org>; detnet WG <detnet@ietf.org>; pals@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [Pals] > draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id (was RE: Please review > the PALS/MPLS/DetNet Joint Session minutes) > > > > John, > > > > Regarding existing implementations compliant with Entropy Label > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790 : > > - Ingress is free to use any field and any function to generate the > entropy label. E.g., incoming customer physical interface and virtual > interface which are not fields in the packet. The only requirement is that > the EL be constant for a given flow such as this value can be used for ECMP > load-balancing. I think that we’ll probably agree that the slide ID is > constant for a given flow. > > - Transit is mostly free to not even do anything special with EL. Assuming > it uses the MPLS label for load-balancing, it’s using the value in EL > either as a general label (used part of hashing multiple labels) of after > recognizing the ELI and using only the EL. How the EL value has been chosen. > > > > So I’m not seeing a theoretical way to “break existing ELI/EL > Implementations”. > > > > Are you aware of a specific EL compliant specification which would be > broken by the new behavior? If so please be specific. > > > > Finally, a priori the risk of affecting existing implementations seems > higher with proposal doing much larger change in the MPLS Label stack, such > as trying to fit generic In Stack Data in a MPLS label stack (or LSE) which > has not been designed for that. I’m not sure why you are not at least > equally commenting on such proposals. > > > > --Bruno > > > > > > Orange Restricted > > *From:* John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net> > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 30, 2022 7:13 PM > *To:* DECRAENE Bruno INNOV/NET <bruno.decraene@orange.com> > *Cc:* Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>; mpls <mpls@ietf.org>; detnet WG < > detnet@ietf.org>; Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com>; pals@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Pals] [mpls] > draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id (was RE: Please review > the PALS/MPLS/DetNet Joint Session minutes) > > > > Except that putting a slice ID in the Entropy Label field will break > existing ELI/EL Implementations because their hashing of the slice ID > won’t necessarily place a packet on the correct outgoing I/F > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Mar 30, 2022, at 1:00 PM, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > > > > *[External Email. Be cautious of content]* > > > > > > > > *From:* Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> *On Behalf Of *Tony Li > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 30, 2022 4:08 PM > > > [Kireeti]: suggest attending talk by Tony on danger of reusing ELI > before making any decision. > > https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-113-pals > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-113-pals__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Sw9ofU9AyD7Z-JKwyAqMlHk5xhNLxZNMSu31Yt6-K7yh-6JehvlSPLDcqrP3gOo$> > > > > Done. The talk raised no “danger of reusing ELI” for draft > draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id; quite the contrary. > > I quote: “claims of backward compatibility apply to > draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id-03”. With more details on > slide 18 > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/materials/slides-113-mpls-05-policy-on-mpls-special-purpose-labels-reuse-00 > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/materials/slides-113-mpls-05-policy-on-mpls-special-purpose-labels-reuse-00__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Sw9ofU9AyD7Z-JKwyAqMlHk5xhNLxZNMSu31Yt6-K7yh-6JehvlSPLDcNEC7QKk$> > > > > > > Yes, the issue with this proposal is that it has no space for in-stack > data and not enough space for possible expansion of additional actions. > > > > [Bruno] There are two steps: > > - This proposal allows for carrying 8 Indicators and a slice ID while been > backward compatible with egress LER hance providing faster deployment with > incremental benefit. > > - If more in-stack data is required the proposal is extensible (e.g. > draft-jags-mpls-ext-hdr) but at the cost of losing the above benefits for > the ASes & uses-cases requiring more than 8 Indicators per AS or In-Stack > Data. > > So we can have both worlds: simple first step and extensibility for those > who need it. > > > > Independently, we also/already have the post stack data option to carry > ancillary data, which may limit the need for In-Stack data extension. > > > > --Bruno > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > Orange Restricted > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Pals mailing list > Pals@ietf.org > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Sw9ofU9AyD7Z-JKwyAqMlHk5xhNLxZNMSu31Yt6-K7yh-6JehvlSPLDcSqI60Zo$ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Sw9ofU9AyD7Z-JKwyAqMlHk5xhNLxZNMSu31Yt6-K7yh-6JehvlSPLDcSqI60Zo$> > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Pals mailing list > Pals@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals > -- Thanks and Regards, Rajesh Pandey, CISCO Systems, Bangalore. Mob. +91-9448252727
- [Detnet] draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-slid-enco… Tony Li
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-slid-enco… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… John E Drake
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… John E Drake
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Rajesh Pandey
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… John E Drake
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… John E Drake
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… John E Drake
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… John E Drake
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… John E Drake
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Tony Li
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Tony Li
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Haoyu Song
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Tony Li
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… John E Drake
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Tony Li
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Tony Li
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Tony Li
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… John E Drake
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Tony Li
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… John E Drake
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… John E Drake
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… John E Drake
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Detnet] [Pals] [mpls] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-sl… Gyan Mishra