Re: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip-07: (with DISCUSS)

Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> Thu, 03 December 2020 09:13 UTC

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From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
To: "iesg@ietf.org" <iesg@ietf.org>, "balazs.a.varga=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org" <balazs.a.varga=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "David.Black@dell.com" <David.Black@dell.com>
CC: "detnet@ietf.org" <detnet@ietf.org>, "eagros@dolby.com" <eagros@dolby.com>, "draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip@ietf.org>, "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" <detnet-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip-07: (with DISCUSS)
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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 09:13:17 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/TFYLBHEiq64Rqp64IOKYwVOGxsc>
Subject: Re: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip-07: (with DISCUSS)
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Hi,

David's suggestions is definitely the direction I was considering to resolve
this.

Cheers

Magnus

On Wed, 2020-12-02 at 22:40 +0000, Black, David wrote:
> Hi Balazs,
> 
> Digging in a little deeper, I concur with Magnus's underlying concern that
> this draft ought to say something about UDP checksums with IPv6.  There's a
> useful starting point at the end of the Introduction (Section 1):
> 
>    As specified in [RFC7510]: "MPLS-in-UDP MUST NOT be used over the
>    general Internet, or over non-cooperating network operators, to carry
>    traffic that is not congestion controlled."  This does apply to
>    DetNet networks as this document focuses on solutions for networks
>    that are under a single administrative control or within a closed
>    group of administrative control.
> 
> That suggests that the first two exceptions (a & b)  in Section 3.1 of RFC
> 7510 (both of which involve single administrative control) are more likely to
> apply to DetNet than the third one (c, based on higher layer recovery and/or
> error tolerance).  It could be helpful to say that in an added paragraph on
> UDP checksums (for both v4 and v6) at the end of Section 4 in this draft.
> 
> I would also suggest aligning the text quoted above (from the end of Section
> 1) with the text used in exceptions a. & b. in Section 3.1 of RFC 7510, as I
> think roughly the same scope is intended.  In particular, it appears to me
> that this draft's notion of "closed group of administrative control" would
> fall under the notion of "single administrative control" in RFC 7510 (FWIW,
> I'm an author of RFC 7510).
> 
> The suggestion to add use/non-use of UDP checksum to the list of management
> and control information in Section 5 is a good idea - that addition ought to
> cite Section 3.1 of RFC 7510 for the conditions under which the UDP checksum
> may be disabled for IPv6 (per RFC 7510, UDP checksum for IPv6 "MUST be
> implemented" for MPLS-in-UDP).
> 
> Thanks, --David
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Balázs Varga A
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 12:25 PM
> > To: Magnus Westerlund; The IESG
> > Cc: eagros@dolby.com; detnet@ietf.org; draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-
> > ip@ietf.org; detnet-chairs@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-
> > over-
> > udp-ip-07: (with DISCUSS)
> > 
> > 
> > [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Chapter 5. of draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip provides a _non-exhaustive_ 
> > list of
> > control and management plane information.
> > DetNet does not changes rules of rfc7510: if the exceptions listed in 3.1 of
> > rfc7510
> > applies, then using zero checksum is allowed; otherwise not.
> > 
> > A possible solution can be to add an additional information element to the
> > list in
> > chapter 5, which allow or not the usage of zero-checksum.
> > 
> > Thanks & Cheers
> > Bala'zs
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Magnus Westerlund via
> > Datatracker
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 4:47 PM
> > To: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
> > Cc: eagros@dolby.com; detnet@ietf.org; draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-
> > ip@ietf.org; detnet-chairs@ietf.org
> > Subject: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-
> > over-udp-
> > ip-07: (with DISCUSS)
> > 
> > Magnus Westerlund has entered the following ballot position for
> > draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip-07: Discuss
> > 
> > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email
> > addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> > introductory
> > paragraph, however.)
> > 
> > 
> > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> > 
> > 
> > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > DISCUSS:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > So there might be something missing here in regards to zero-checksum in UDP
> > when using IPv6. So Section 3.1 in RFC 7510 discusses this for MPLS over UDP
> > and
> > have some considerations that needs to be done if one are intending to use
> > zero
> > checksum. To me it appears that DETNET flows can not be guaranteed to always
> > fulfill these, and in case you think you can motivate it should probably be
> > stated
> > explicitly and normatively allow it. So if it can't be guaranteed to fulfill
> > these
> > requirements then the next question exists: Do the possibility to use zero-
> > checksum
> > for this flow become something the control plane needs to signal it?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > detnet mailing list
> > detnet@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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> > detnet@ietf.org
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