Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-02
Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> Mon, 17 May 2021 17:54 UTC
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To: Mohammadpour Ehsan <ehsan.mohammadpour@epfl.ch>
Cc: "draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency@ietf.org>, DetNet WG <detnet@ietf.org>
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From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/YQW54GKjXkMcZq53Gj6BpxykNgQ>
Subject: Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-02
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Ehsan Thanks for the quick turnaround! The document has been submitted to the IESG. Lou On 5/17/2021 6:38 AM, Mohammadpour Ehsan wrote: > Hello Lou, > > Thanks for the precise review; I updated the draft accordingly. You > can find the new version here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-06 > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-06>. > > > Best, > Ehsan > > > > -- > Ehsan Mohammadpour > PhD Candidate at Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (EPFL) > EPFL EDIC PhD student representative > IC IINFCOM, LCA2, INF 011, Station 14, 1015 Lausanne, Switzerland > https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour > <https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour> > >> On 15 May 2021, at 20:01, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net >> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>> wrote: >> >> Hi Ehsan, >> >> Sorry about the delay. I still see one problematic line in the new text: >> >> Then, >> the input flows are identified using the information in (Section 5.1 >> of [RFC8939]). Then they are aggregated into eight macro flows based >> on their traffic classes. >> >> The term traffic classes still doesn't map well into RFC8939. I >> think you mean >> >> Then they are aggregated into eight macro flows based >> on their service requirements. >> >> It would be best to have this change made prior to submission for >> publication to the IESG. Please let me know what you think. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Lou >> >> On 5/10/2021 8:37 AM, Mohammadpour Ehsan wrote: >> >>> Dear WG chairs, >>> >>> Since the comments have been addressed, I was wondering if we can >>> proceed to the publication request. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> Ehsan >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 19 Apr 2021, at 03:50, Mohammadpour Ehsan >>>> <ehsan.mohammadpour@epfl.ch >>>> <mailto:ehsan.mohammadpour@epfl.ch><mailto:ehsan.mohammadpour@epfl.ch >>>> <mailto:ehsan.mohammadpour@epfl.ch>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear WG, >>>> >>>> A new version of Bounded Latency draft is uploaded >>>> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-05 >>>> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-05><https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-05 >>>> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-05>>). >>>> This version addresses all the raised comments, including the >>>> latest ones by Lou and Toerless. >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Ehsan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ehsan Mohammadpour >>>> PhD Candidate at Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (EPFL) >>>> EPFL EDIC PhD student representative >>>> IC IINFCOM, LCA2, INF 011, Station 14, 1015 Lausanne, Switzerland >>>> https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour >>>> <https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour><https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour >>>> <https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour>> >>>> >>>>> On 9 Apr 2021, at 14:19, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net >>>>> <mailto:lberger@labn.net><mailto:lberger@labn.net >>>>> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Eshan, >>>>> >>>>> Please let the WG know when you have addressed all previous >>>>> raised (and discussed items) and have uploaded the new version. >>>>> This will unblock the publication request. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you! >>>>> >>>>> Lou >>>>> >>>>> On 4/7/2021 7:19 PM, Toerless Eckert wrote: >>>>>> Ehsan, *: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks a lot for Section 7 in the latest draft version. Helps a >>>>>> lot to get >>>>>> the linkage between this doc and the DetNet architecure an QoS >>>>>> options. >>>>>> >>>>>> Alas, i do not see the concerns i raised with the authors about >>>>>> section 6.5 solved >>>>>> that i send before IEF 110 in email. If you can't find that >>>>>> email, i can post it >>>>>> again. Its solely about the fact that the document uses "IntServ" >>>>>> where it >>>>>> should say (IntServ) "Guaranteed Service", because the second >>>>>> "IntServ" Service, >>>>>> "Controlled Load" does not provide any determinisic latency >>>>>> guarantees (only GS does), >>>>>> and therefore the unconstrained use of "IntServ" and not >>>>>> mentioning of "Guaranteed Services" >>>>>> will be confusing to anyone who digs deeper into the IETF >>>>>> terminology (the refernce to rfc2212 is correct though). >>>>>> >>>>>> I think also tha he formulas in rfc2211 are more complex than >>>>>> what you write in 6.5, >>>>>> i do like he simplification of 6.5, but it might be worth noting >>>>>> explicitly >>>>>> hat those are implifications. specifically there are a bunch more >>>>>> parameters in >>>>>> TSPEC/RSPEC than whats written in 6.5, and those parameters have >>>>>> impact on the >>>>>> bounded latency in GS. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Toerless >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 07:56:01AM +0000, Mohammadpour Ehsan wrote: >>>>>>> Hello Lou, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the comment, you???re right! I will use the following >>>>>>> sentence: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Then they are aggregated into eight macro flows based on their >>>>>>> DetNet flow aggregate." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Ehsan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> P.S. The intention of "Then, the input flows are identified >>>>>>> using the information in (Section 5.1 of [RFC8939])???, was to >>>>>>> say that we use Section 5.1 of RFC8939 to identify the >>>>>>> individual DetNet flows. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Ehsan Mohammadpour >>>>>>> PhD Candidate at Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (EPFL) >>>>>>> IC IINFCOM, LCA2, INF 011, Station 14, 1015 Lausanne, Switzerland >>>>>>> https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour<https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour?lang=en> >>>>>>> <https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour%3Chttps://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour?lang=en%3E><https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour%3Chttps://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour?lang=en%3E >>>>>>> <https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour%3Chttps://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour?lang=en%3E>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 22 Mar 2021, at 16:56, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net >>>>>>> <mailto:lberger@labn.net><mailto:lberger@labn.net >>>>>>> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>><mailto:lberger@labn.net >>>>>>> <mailto:lberger@labn.net><mailto:lberger@labn.net >>>>>>> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ehsan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for the update. I did a quick skim and it looks much >>>>>>> improved. I found one bit of new language confusing: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Section 6.4 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the considered queuing model, we considered the four traffic >>>>>>> classes (Definition 3.268 of [IEEE8021Q]): control-data traffic >>>>>>> (CDT), class A, class B, and best effort (BE) in decreasing >>>>>>> order of >>>>>>> priority. Flows of classes A and B are together referred as AVB >>>>>>> flows. This model is a subset of Time-Sensitive Networking as >>>>>>> described next. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> .... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Then, >>>>>>> the input flows are identified using the information in >>>>>>> (Section 5.1 >>>>>>> of [RFC8939]). Then they are aggregated into eight macro >>>>>>> flows based >>>>>>> on their traffic classes. We refer to each macro flow as a >>>>>>> class. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So in the first paragraph, you say "traffic classes" is defined >>>>>>> by 802.1Q. in the second, you say "their traffic classes" is >>>>>>> defined based on [RFC8939]. I believe these are inconsistent >>>>>>> definitions. I think you are trying to say that >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Then they are aggregated into eight macro flows based on >>>>>>> their *DetNet flow aggregate.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is assuming that the node isn't doing some sort of >>>>>>> independent mapping of micro-flows to macro-flows. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please let me know if I'm missing something. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lou >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/22/2021 11:33 AM, Mohammadpour Ehsan wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear WG, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We submitted a new version of the Bounded Latency draft that >>>>>>> addresses the comments received in the list >>>>>>> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-04<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-03> >>>>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-04%3Chttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-03%3E><https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-04<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-03> >>>>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-04%3Chttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-03%3E>>); >>>>>>> it is now ready for submission to the IESG for publication. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks Lou for his comments. In the new version, we address the >>>>>>> comments as follows: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Abstract >>>>>>> I think the abstract should to be updated to match the current >>>>>>> content of the document. I suggest just copying the 4th and 5th >>>>>>> paragraphs from the Introduction section. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the suggestion. The new version is updated accordingly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - general comment: classes of (DetNet) Service >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The document states that it uses terminology from RFC8655, it >>>>>>> also uses the terms "Classes of DetNet Service", " DetNet >>>>>>> Classes of Service" and other similar forms of these terms. >>>>>>> RFC8655 uses this term in one place " Class-of-Service schemes >>>>>>> (e.g., DiffServ)" and also mentions "classes of DetNet flows" >>>>>>> in two places. The data plane documents [RFC8964] and >>>>>>> [RFC8934] also describe Class of Service in the context of >>>>>>> DiffServ (and not DetNet). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In reading the document it seems that it is not using CoS in the >>>>>>> typical way used in the IETF or the other DetNet RFCs, and is >>>>>>> introducing a new definition for CoS. II think having a >>>>>>> document specific definition of CoS probably isn't helpful. It >>>>>>> would be best to use existing DetNet terminology. I suspect >>>>>>> "flow aggregate" is the closest, but perhaps I'm missing something. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for your comment. In the new version, we used the term >>>>>>> ???aggregate??? instead of class in section 3.1 and classes of >>>>>>> DetNet flows. Section 6.4 uses the term ???traffic class??? as >>>>>>> in IEEE802.1Q. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - alignment with the Data Plane RFCs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The lists in section 3.1 and in section 6.4 are not well aligned >>>>>>> with the Data plane documents. These sections should be aligned >>>>>>> with the provisioning of IP flows, as summarized in Section 6 >>>>>>> of RFC8939, and MPLS as summarized in Section 5 of RFC8964. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for your comment. Section 3.1 is about flow admission >>>>>>> paradigm and not "flow creation???. The title is changed to >>>>>>> ???flow admission??? to avoid possible confusion. In fact, this >>>>>>> section is aligned with the DataPlane RFCs and in parallel with >>>>>>> provisioning of IP flows. We modified section 6.4 to follow the >>>>>>> Data plane documents. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - minor comment service vs frame preemption >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Section 3.1 uses the term "un-provisioning", I read the text as >>>>>>> meaning "service preemption". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the rest of the document preemption refers to "frame >>>>>>> preemption" and this should be clarified. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the suggestion. In the new version, we use the term >>>>>>> ???service preemption??? and update the term ???preemption??? to >>>>>>> ???frame preemption???. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - id nits, please ensure the document passes idnits without >>>>>>> errors, see >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www6.ietf.org/tools/idnits?url=https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-02.txt >>>>>>> <https://www6.ietf.org/tools/idnits?url=https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-02.txt><https://www6.ietf.org/tools/idnits?url=https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-02.txt >>>>>>> <https://www6.ietf.org/tools/idnits?url=https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-02.txt>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for your comment about idnits. We added the missing >>>>>>> sections, i.e., ???security considerations??? and ???IANA >>>>>>> considerations??? to the draft. Also resolved other comments by >>>>>>> idnits. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Ehsan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Ehsan Mohammadpour >>>>>>> PhD Candidate at Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (EPFL) >>>>>>> EPFL EDIC PhD student representative >>>>>>> IC IINFCOM, LCA2, INF 011, Station 14, 1015 Lausanne, Switzerland >>>>>>> https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour<https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour?lang=en> >>>>>>> <https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour<https://people.epfl.ch/ehsan.mohammadpour?lang=en>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 21 Feb 2021, at 23:15, Lou Berger >>>>>>> <lberger@labn.net<mailto:lberger@labn.net>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The WG last call is complete. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Authors, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please bring any resolutions to comments received to the list. >>>>>>> Once all comments are addressed please update the draft and let >>>>>>> the WG know that it is ready for submission to the IESG for >>>>>>> publications. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lou >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 8:30 AM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>>>>> All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This starts working group last call on >>>>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-02 >>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The working group last call ends on February 19th. >>>>>>> Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please note, there was an IPR disclosure against this document >>>>>>> submitted on January 14, 2021, see >>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4581/ >>>>>>> While this disclosure came very late in the document life cycle, >>>>>>> it appears the filing was also relatively recent (2019-10-16) and >>>>>>> after the pre adoption IP call: >>>>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/1mwYdadDzTLudcuH5T5O7R_KlDs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document >>>>>>> and believe it is ready for publication", are welcome! >>>>>>> This is useful and important, even from authors. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> Lou (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> detnet mailing list >>>>>>> detnet@ietf.org<mailto:detnet@ietf.org> >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> detnet mailing list >>>>>>> detnet@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >>>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> detnet mailing list >>> detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet> >
- [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-… Lou Berger
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Jean-Yves Le Boudec
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Ethan Grossman
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Zhangjiayi (Jiayi)
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Dangjuanna
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Zhangjiayi (Jiayi)
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Lou Berger
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Lou Berger
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Mohammadpour Ehsan
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Lou Berger
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Mohammadpour Ehsan
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Lou Berger
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Mohammadpour Ehsan
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Mohammadpour Ehsan
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Mohammadpour Ehsan
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Lou Berger
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Lou Berger
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Mohammadpour Ehsan
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Lou Berger
- Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-boun… Mohammadpour Ehsan