Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id (was RE: Please review the PALS/MPLS/DetNet Joint Session minutes)

Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> Thu, 31 March 2022 04:30 UTC

Return-Path: <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C1FE3A12B8; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 21:30:26 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.997
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id snXk9__H58sI; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 21:30:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pf1-x429.google.com (mail-pf1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A2EE3A12B5; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 21:30:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pf1-x429.google.com with SMTP id b13so18956620pfv.0; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 21:30:20 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=8f6SZEsevDDzley80DjBTylBtWrb3R/4+V7XCJAs/wI=; b=eFxIm1bJw5+ROKzbU0EM2NQSbq1EHz9N/7VIbqbEVlhmq9cM9jhwaT9kVjYOKVH5eY zH+FKsJX+hGUnELhpHN878NJem1ydHLgwyWXuWiCI3CpKEXsXpAVlZ0DK/kAGgbuQkPZ aU/UCJ8ybb7lnw5/q/0/FBg/hNujEFrR4Urs7/sOdpfEfRlOR3lJZ0sWKqLFZ85mxqSe qsOERHj3/SR0yfw34corRjeKHK9hwWw2HI8sMQjoM8fNKjJOi1MfotbkVan9ikMKExJG KbhRtlnL5yX8mwC81ztNdK4xnCkA0WroLuD8aHI8YOHXe+bUVzmz8rUsacI98t21nkID OXlg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8f6SZEsevDDzley80DjBTylBtWrb3R/4+V7XCJAs/wI=; b=vvApovyje+CkHaEKCbGwL07zNBMRVex2JLgEiyV7rbKhifW3ltPxuEnTt5EA7aDud/ 6mFmD/l6n2/hi57Ds6gjkMEKbUstjVMtVQFTkO1Gt6bN0QXwndOzLsw3u7EuC2UQQMkZ 5jvVGng/DCyspINxIeFMLiPI0ouUFgx0IaOJT07X+RPLQTPfhvH3utYQLCPDpYqj2jP2 vYiPFPCvq7FHGfONzAI6b3BF+wzlUGV3mxYIabSDCrDropsskGM7hGrYOAYVEMUn3uB5 1kSqHERAhc91t6i7r4R7M+lO0WhgqFteRP66c4T4qxTnWaKXaWYjiMghqxa0/9QEx8gI s61Q==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531VtQI5YAR5n2ITmkquFas588Sx80NNePHDCxx3IaTf6aOP1IJv Lx7DkjRSGhO6uVwop53keZ0uTX03kqspQPWMKaI=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxNkDCjm6pPzyBySz0zdilxH0vCrVGLNvIivk3agTAc/nkWh7cfKXbDVzy8+ZcFvENfcQ40Fh970S4wK36JBSQ=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:a0f:b0:4e1:309:83c0 with SMTP id p15-20020a056a000a0f00b004e1030983c0mr3311343pfh.68.1648701018936; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 21:30:18 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <14219_1648628199_624411E7_14219_65_1_c11c63ca0c7649a1ba55d96c03910cd5@orange.com> <DCC3C232-0C45-4541-BDD5-0EF51333F41E@tony.li> <22915_1648659581_62448C7D_22915_418_1_8ef3862f86024a26952e0b183e921360@orange.com> <B33092F8-5417-4E66-9616-A1FD17485B2A@juniper.net> <AM0PR07MB4497D16A36BCAF86C0906457831F9@AM0PR07MB4497.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CO1PR05MB8088A3BB0625E31EA00A3825C71F9@CO1PR05MB8088.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <CO1PR05MB8088A3BB0625E31EA00A3825C71F9@CO1PR05MB8088.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 00:30:07 -0400
Message-ID: <CABNhwV31cfLVZfQVc2M=WHN0-Funha9TTFNZ1iKDe+5QY9N58Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, detnet WG <detnet@ietf.org>, mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009317c105db7c1e13"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/ntCktrckG2CGfLiwsnlz3v8bVao>
Subject: Re: [Detnet] [mpls] [Pals] draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id (was RE: Please review the PALS/MPLS/DetNet Joint Session minutes)
X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG <detnet.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/detnet>, <mailto:detnet-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/detnet/>
List-Post: <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:detnet-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet>, <mailto:detnet-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 04:30:26 -0000

I like Bruno’s idea of reusing the entropy label as indicator of MEH in the
label stack and is backwards compatibility for devices not supporting can
continue to use for ECMP load balancing.

I think this is a solid interim solution to get the ball rolling with
minimal software updates and being able to support ancillary data in the
label stack and as other solutions are progressed that may take longer or
implement and deploy at least in the near term we have a quick solution
that could be promising for operators.

I think we do have to vett out the backwards compatibility and scenario I
can think of is if you want to be able to use the entropy label for ECMP
load balancing and simultaneously want to also use as ancillary data
indicator I am guessing won’t work and that is something we would have to
be cognizant of if deployed.

Kind Regards

Gyan

On Wed, Mar 30, 2022 at 4:04 PM John E Drake <jdrake=
40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Wim,
>
>
>
> I think I would term it a thought experiment.  An RFC 6790 compliant node
> will take the value in the EL label field and use it to select an outgoing
> interface.  If the value in the EL field is a slice ID, such an node will
> select an outgoing interface which is not necessarily part of the slice in
> question and that outgoing interface will be to a node which is not
> necessarily part of the slice in question.
>
>
>
> Yours Irrespectively,
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> Juniper Business Use Only
>
> *From:* Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 30, 2022 3:21 PM
> *To:* John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>; bruno.decraene@orange.com
> *Cc:* mpls <mpls@ietf.org>; detnet WG <detnet@ietf.org>; pals@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [Pals]
> draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id (was RE: Please review
> the PALS/MPLS/DetNet Joint Session minutes)
>
>
>
> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>
>
>
> John, do you have evidence of this or is this a theoretical claim ?
>
>
>
> *From: *mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of John E Drake <
> jdrake=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Date: *Wednesday, 30 March 2022 at 19:13
> *To: *bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> *Cc: *mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, detnet WG <detnet@ietf.org>, pals@ietf.org <
> pals@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [mpls] [Pals]
> draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id (was RE: Please review
> the PALS/MPLS/DetNet Joint Session minutes)
>
> Except that putting a slice ID in the Entropy Label field will break
> existing  ELI/EL Implementations because their hashing of the slice ID
> won’t necessarily place a packet on the correct outgoing I/F
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2022, at 1:00 PM, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
>
> 
>
> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> *On Behalf Of *Tony Li
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 30, 2022 4:08 PM
>
> > [Kireeti]: suggest attending talk by Tony on danger of reusing ELI
> before making any decision.
>
> https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-113-pals
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-113-pals__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Sw9ofU9AyD7Z-JKwyAqMlHk5xhNLxZNMSu31Yt6-K7yh-6JehvlSPLDcqrP3gOo$>
>
>
>
> Done. The talk raised no “danger of reusing ELI” for draft
> draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id; quite the contrary.
>
> I quote: “claims of backward compatibility apply to
> draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id-03”. With more details on
> slide 18
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/materials/slides-113-mpls-05-policy-on-mpls-special-purpose-labels-reuse-00
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/materials/slides-113-mpls-05-policy-on-mpls-special-purpose-labels-reuse-00__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Sw9ofU9AyD7Z-JKwyAqMlHk5xhNLxZNMSu31Yt6-K7yh-6JehvlSPLDcNEC7QKk$>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes, the issue with this proposal is that it has no space for in-stack
> data and not enough space for possible expansion of additional actions.
>
>
>
> [Bruno] There are two steps:
>
> - This proposal allows for carrying 8 Indicators and a slice ID while been
> backward compatible with egress LER hance providing faster deployment with
> incremental benefit.
>
> - If more in-stack data is required the proposal is extensible (e.g.
> draft-jags-mpls-ext-hdr) but at the cost of losing the above benefits for
> the ASes & uses-cases requiring more than 8 Indicators per AS or In-Stack
> Data.
>
> So we can have both worlds: simple first step and extensibility for those
> who need it.
>
>
>
> Independently, we also/already have the post stack data option to carry
> ancillary data, which may limit the need for In-Stack data extension.
>
>
>
> --Bruno
>
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Orange Restricted
>
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>
>
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
>
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
>
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
>
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
>
> Thank you.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pals mailing list
> Pals@ietf.org
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Sw9ofU9AyD7Z-JKwyAqMlHk5xhNLxZNMSu31Yt6-K7yh-6JehvlSPLDcSqI60Zo$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Sw9ofU9AyD7Z-JKwyAqMlHk5xhNLxZNMSu31Yt6-K7yh-6JehvlSPLDcSqI60Zo$>
>
> _______________________________________________
> detnet mailing list
> detnet@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet
>
-- 

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *

*Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>*



*M 301 502-1347*