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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Some views/comments. Regarding item 1 and 2: I think OAM is only a portion of the Management plane. As for now, we may s= imple refer to the "detnet-x-oam" drafts to avoid confusions. Just some Management plane related tasks/functions/modules we should cover = in the document in my view: - administration/collection of DetNet (DN) service requests - administration/collection of node/network states (variables, counters, et= c.) needed for providing a DN service - tools to design/optimize a DN service (selecting functions to create the = service e2e, across the network) - configuration of nodes for a DN service (e2e, across the network) - monitoring tools for the e2e DN service - etc. All this tasks/functions/modules already exists today but may need some ext= ensions due to the special requirements/characteristics of DetNet flows. Regarding item 3: I think the "Management plane" part of the document is needed and it should= show how the above listed functionalities are challenged by DetNet, where extension of current= solutions is needed. For example, we may compare the Management plane differences of legacy VPN serv= ices and DetNet service. Just as an example, we need node internal min/max delay between ingress and= egress port pairs in order to design proper queuing control. This is not relevant for non-Det= Net flows, so a new information element is needed. However, it may be collected using already e= xisting management plane methods ... Cheers Bala'zs From: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2020 9:53 AM To: DetNet WG Cc: 'DetNet Chairs' ; draft-malis-detnet-controller= -plane-framework@ietf.org; Loa Andersson Subject: Management Plane in draft-malis-detnet-controller-plane-framework-= 04 Hi WG, After some great discussions in IETF 108 and offline, I would like to start= a thread in the ML to discuss about the management plane of draft-malis-de= tnet-controller-plane-framework-04, to get consensus in WG . Guidance from = WG chairs will also be very helpful. Background information could be found in the end of the email[*]. Here are some topics that to be discussed: 1. In IETF 108, a question about "M" is raised: in OAM, "M" represents= "Maintenance", but in this document, all the contents about OAM are discus= sed in a section 5 named "management plane"; This may bring confusion about= the terminologies; 2. In section 5, DetNet OAM is briefly discussed by dividing it into t= wo aspects: OAM for PM and OAM for CFM; while there are two documents in WG= covering the same topic: DetNet MPLS OAM and DetNet IP OAM. The relationsh= ip between these documents should be considered; 3. The motivation of DetNet controller plane framework is to analysis = the gap between the existing technologies in IETF and DetNet controller pla= ne requirement, and give guidance for further protocol extension or new pro= tocol design. If there have been management plane solutions, whether this p= art in the document is still necessary. Best Regards Xuesong --- [*]:Here are some background information: - WG charter: Controller Plane: The DetNet Controller Plane is defined in RFC 8655 as "th= e aggregation of the Control and Management Planes"; - RFC 8655 Deterministic Networking Architecture 4.4.2. The Controller Plane The Controller Plane corresponds to the aggregation of the Control and Management Planes in [RFC7426], though Common Control and Measurement Plane (CCAMP) (as defined by the CCAMP Working Group [CCAMP]) makes an additional distinction between management and measurement. When the logical separation of the Control, Measurement, and other Management entities is not relevant, the term "Controller Plane" is used for simplicity to represent them all, and the term "Controller Plane Function (CPF)" refers to any device operating in that plane, whether it is a Path Computation Element (PCE) [RFC4655], a Network Management Entity (NME), or a distributed control protocol. The CPF is a core element of a controller, in charge of computing deterministic paths to be applied in the Network Plane. - RFC 7426 Software-Defined Networking (SDN): Layers and Architect= ure Terminology 3.4. Management Plane The management plane is usually centralized and aims to ensure that the network as a whole is running optimally by communicating with the network devices' operational plane using a Management-Plane Southbound Interface (MPSI) with DAL as a point of reference. Management-plane functionalities are typically initiated, based on an overall network view, and traditionally have been human-centric. However, lately, algorithms are replacing most human intervention. Management-plane functionalities [FCAPS] typically include: o Fault and monitoring management o Configuration management - RFC 7276 An Overview of Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OA= M) Tools Abstract Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) is a general term that refers to a toolset for fault detection and isolation, and for performance measurement. --_000_AM0PR0702MB3603EC6E947DAADF37ED8845AC540AM0PR0702MB3603_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

Some views/comments= .

 

Regarding item 1= and 2:

I think OAM is only= a portion of the Management plane. As for now, we may simple refer to the

“detnet-x-oam= ” drafts to avoid confusions.

Just some Managemen= t plane related tasks/functions/modules we should cover in the document

in my view:

- administration/co= llection of DetNet (DN) service requests

- administration/co= llection of node/network states (variables, counters, etc.) needed for prov= iding a DN service

- tools to design/o= ptimize a DN service (selecting functions to create the service e2e, across= the network)

- configuration of = nodes for a DN service (e2e, across the network)

- monitoring tools = for the e2e DN service

- etc.

All this tasks/func= tions/modules already exists today but may need some extensions due to the = special

requirements/charac= teristics of DetNet flows.

 

Regarding item 3= :

I think the “= Management plane” part of the document is needed and it should show h= ow the above

listed functionalit= ies are challenged by DetNet, where extension of current solutions is neede= d. For

example, we may com= pare the Management plane differences of legacy VPN services and DetNet

service.

Just as an example,= we need node internal min/max delay between ingress and egress port pairs

in order to design = proper queuing control. This is not relevant for non-DetNet flows, so a new

information element= is needed. However, it may be collected using already existing management

plane methods ̷= 0;

 

Cheers

Bala’zs<= /o:p>

 

 

From: = Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2020 9:53 AM
To: DetNet WG <detnet@ietf.org>
Cc: 'DetNet Chairs' <detnet-chairs@ietf.org>; draft-malis-detn= et-controller-plane-framework@ietf.org; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Subject: Management Plane in draft-malis-detnet-controller-plane-fra= mework-04

 =

Hi WG,

 

After some great discussions in IETF 108 and offline, I w= ould like to start a thread in the ML to discuss about the management plane= of draft-malis-detnet-controller-plane-framework-04, to get consensus in WG . Guidance from WG chairs will also be very helpful= .

Background information could be found in the end of the e= mail[*].

Here are some topics that to be discussed:

1.      I= n IETF 108, a question about “M” is raised: in OAM, “M= 221; represents “Maintenance”, but in this document, all the co= ntents about OAM are discussed in a section 5 named “management plane= ”; This may bring confusion about the terminologies;

2.      I= n section 5, DetNet OAM is briefly discussed by dividing it into two aspect= s: OAM for PM and OAM for CFM; while there are two documents in WG covering= the same topic: DetNet MPLS OAM and DetNet IP OAM. The relationship between these documents should be consider= ed;

3.      T= he motivation of DetNet controller plane framework is to analysis the gap b= etween the existing technologies in IETF and DetNet controller plane requir= ement, and give guidance for further protocol extension or new protocol design. If there have been management p= lane solutions, whether this part in the document is still necessary.<= /o:p>

 

Best Regards

Xuesong

 

---

[*]:Here are some background information:

-Controller Plane: The DetNet Controller Plane is defined = in RFC 8655 as "the aggregation of the Control and Management Planes&q= uot;;

-4.4.2.  The Controller Plane

   The Controller Plane corresponds to the aggr= egation of the Control

   and Management Planes in [RFC7426], though C= ommon Control and

   Measurement Plane (CCAMP) (as defined by the= CCAMP Working Group

   [CCAMP]) makes an additional distinction bet= ween management and

   measurement.  When the logical separati= on of the Control,

   Measurement, and other Management entities i= s not relevant, the term

   "Controller Plane" is used for sim= plicity to represent them all, and

   the term "Controller Plane Function (CP= F)" refers to any device

   operating in that plane, whether it is a Pat= h Computation Element

   (PCE) [RFC4655], a Network Management Entity= (NME), or a distributed

   control protocol.  The CPF is a core el= ement of a controller, in

   charge of computing deterministic paths to b= e applied in the Network

   Plane.

-<= /a>3.4.  Management Plane

   The management plane is usually centralized = and aims to ensure that

   the network as a whole is running optimally = by communicating with the

   network devices' operational plane using a M= anagement-Plane

   Southbound Interface (MPSI) with DAL as a po= int of reference.

   Management-plane functionalities are typical= ly initiated, based on an

   overall network view, and traditionally have= been human-centric.

   However, lately, algorithms are replacing mo= st human intervention.

   Management-plane functionalities [FCAPS] typically include:

   o  Fault and monitoring management=

   o  Configuration management<= /span>

-  RFC 7276  An Overview of Operations, Admi= nistration, and Maintenance (OAM) Tools

Abstract

   Operations, Administration, and Maintenance = (OAM) is a general term

   that refers to a toolset for fault detection= and isolation, and for

   performance measurement.

 

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