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Re: [Detnet] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip-06

"Black, David" <David.Black@dell.com> Thu, 01 October 2020 19:35 UTC

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From: "Black, David" <David.Black@dell.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "Grossman, Ethan A." <eagros@dolby.com>
CC: "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, "detnet@ietf.org" <detnet@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip.all@ietf.org>, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, "Black, David" <David.Black@dell.com>
Thread-Topic: [Detnet] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip-06
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Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2020 19:35:36 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/RVNmBlZ6c0yK27izvcmG1lvCjl8>
Subject: Re: [Detnet] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip-06
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Playing devil's advocate for a moment ...

> I would be rather surprised if anyone tried to run a deterministic application over
> TCP.
> 
> TCP would undo all the temporal determinism and or course it looks after packet
> loss.

... IF the DetNet service defines packet loss as a failure case, i.e., something that can't happen unless something in the network has actually failed and the preferred failure behavior is late delivery rather than non-delivery of impacted data, THEN TCP may be useful/appropriate.  OTOH, use of TCP increases the DetNet attack surface, as (in contrast to UDP), causing a drop or otherwise triggering retransmission becomes a way to attack the DetNet service by increasing the amount of traffic sent into limited reserved network capacity and also by delaying delivery of received data to the deterministic application.

I've lost track of the original context, so I'm not able to suggest specific text and where to add it or make changes.

Thanks, --David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
> Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2020 11:12 AM
> To: Grossman, Ethan A.
> Cc: secdir@ietf.org; last-call@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant; detnet@ietf.org; draft-
> ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip.all@ietf.org; Stephen Farrell
> Subject: Re: [Detnet] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-
> ip-06
> 
> 
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> 
> 
> 
> > On 24 Sep 2020, at 21:28, Grossman, Ethan A. <eagros@dolby.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Stephen. FWIW it isn't too late to add some text to the DetNet Security
> draft regarding DetNet over UDP, if someone can think up something useful to
> say. I suppose one could simply mention UDP in the same breath as TCP (implying
> that the same general security guidelines apply, if that's our stance).
> > Any thoughts (from anyone)?
> 
> Ethan
> 
> I would be rather surprised if anyone tried to run a deterministic application over
> TCP.
> 
> TCP would undo all the temporal determinism and or course it looks after packet
> loss.
> 
> - Stewart
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> detnet mailing list
> detnet@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet

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