Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-01.txt)
JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉 <jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp> Tue, 31 August 2004 16:50 UTC
Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA04191; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:50:00 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1C2BaP-0001Ql-KJ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:34:21 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1C2B51-0004Bp-Sh for dhcwg@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:01:56 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28021 for <dhcwg@ietf.org>; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:01:53 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp ([202.249.10.124]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1C2B70-0006jK-VG for dhcwg@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:04:00 -0400
Received: from ocean.jinmei.org (unknown [2001:200:0:8002:7516:52ec:cfc0:15e1]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2911D1525D; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:01:52 +0900 (JST)
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 01:01:51 +0900
Message-ID: <y7vy8jv70uo.wl@ocean.jinmei.org>
From: JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉 <jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp>
To: Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-01.txt)
In-Reply-To: <6C20AA0D-F5DF-11D8-8541-000A95D9C74C@nominum.com>
References: <y7vhdrl56ol.wl@ocean.jinmei.org> <20040803033357.GA20506@sverresborg.uninett.no> <y7veklyqkbx.wl@ocean.jinmei.org> <A9C62C40-F510-11D8-AE27-000A95D9C74C@nominum.com> <y7vfz6cenvy.wl@ocean.jinmei.org> <6C20AA0D-F5DF-11D8-8541-000A95D9C74C@nominum.com>
User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.1 (Watching The Wheels) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI)
Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan.
MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen")
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955
Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: dhcwg.ietf.org
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg>, <mailto:dhcwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dhcwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg>, <mailto:dhcwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:08:14 -0400, >>>>> Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com> said: > However, let's consider your scenario a little more closely. You > acquire some information from the DHCP server. Subsequently, for some > reason, it becomes impossible for the server to respond to the client. > I have a couple of observations about this. First, the time at which > it becomes impossible for the server to respond is not the same as the > time at which the client attempts to refresh its configuration > information. The two events are unrelated. Okay, I concur on this. I also see that the scenario might differ based on whether the client moves to a new link or it stays in the same link. Instead of making further responses point by point, I'll try to summarize major points throughout the thread, and propose what I personally would envision based on the points (if you feel this approach is unfair, please say so). I'll also call the new option "refresh timer option" in the followings since that's the closest notion which we now seem to agree on. The case of moving clients is probably too difficult to provide a complete solution, but it would be helpful some considerations along with the this new option. Now assuming a still client (i.e., a client that doesn't move), we seem to be close to the consensus. - when the refresh timer expires, the client resends a new Information-request message. (it can do so earlier than the expiration time based on its local policy) - if the client gets a response, it (MUST) replace the old information with the new one. This also means if the response contains an empty set of some particular information, the client should stop using the old information. (BTW, there are two types of an "empty set". The first one is a response that contains the corresponding DHCPv6 option, e.g., DNS recursive name server option, with an empty list. The second one is a response that doesn't contain the DHCPv6 option. It seems to me it makes sense to regard both types as "an empty set"). - if the client cannot get a response, it (SHOULD?) continue using the old information because of the reason Ted provided. So, what I would expect in this document is as follows: - we basically concentrate on the case of a still client and explicitly say so in the document. - then we describe the detailed behavior for that type of clients as shown above (of course, based on a consensus in the wg). - we also provide some considerations on moving clients (in an appendix?), which would be something like this: + we assume we can detect the movement (or simply say it's beyond the scope of this work). I think we can simply refer to the beginning of Section 18.1.2 of RFC3315 if necessary. + when the client detects the movement, it should start contacting the DHCP server immediately, regardless of the remaining time of the refresh timer. In this case, how the client deals with the old information is up to the client based on its local policy (there can be so many valid scenarios as we've seen in the discussion). This should particularly apply when the client receives an "empty set" for some information or when the client cannot get any responses at all. However, if the client gets a non empty set of new information, it SHOULD(?) replace the old information with the new one. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp _______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list dhcwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg
- [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-01.txt JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- [dhcwg] Re: comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Stig Venaas
- Re: [dhcwg] Re: comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifeti… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Joe Quanaim
- Re: [dhcwg] Re: comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifeti… Stig Venaas
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Ted Lemon
- RE: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Bernie Volz
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Stig Venaas
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Joe Quanaim
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Stig Venaas
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Joe Quanaim
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Stig Venaas
- RE: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Bernie Volz
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Joe Quanaim
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Stig Venaas
- RE: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Bernie Volz
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Joe Quanaim
- RE: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Bernie Volz
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Stig Venaas
- RE: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Bernie Volz
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Stig Venaas
- RE: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Bernie Volz
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Stig Venaas
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Joe Quanaim
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Stig Venaas
- RE: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Bernie Volz
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: comm… JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Joe Quanaim
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Stig Venaas
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Tim Chown
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Joe Quanaim
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Stig Venaas
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Stig Venaas
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Joe Quanaim
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Ted Lemon
- RE: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Bernie Volz
- RE: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Bernie Volz
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Robert Elz
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Robert Elz
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Stig Venaas
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Robert Elz
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Joe Quanaim
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Stig Venaas
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] dhc-lifetime-01: dropping omitted opt… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Stig Venaas
- Re: [dhcwg] comments on draft-ietf-dhc-lifetime-0… JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Robert Elz
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Stig Venaas
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Stig Venaas
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Stig Venaas
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Joe Quanaim
- Re: [dhcwg] behavior on lifetime expiration (Re: … Stig Venaas