Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors regarding draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-pd-relay-requirements
"Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Wed, 14 October 2020 22:37 UTC
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From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
CC: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, v6ops list <v6ops@ietf.org>, "ianfarrer@gmx.com" <ianfarrer@gmx.com>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] [dhcwg] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors regarding draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-pd-relay-requirements
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Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 22:37:25 +0000
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors regarding draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-pd-relay-requirements
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> I note that the lack of “challenge” does not mean anyone agrees. Agreement needs to be affirmative. Fair enough, Bob; here is the assertion I made that I was referring to: + BTW, I am still waiting to hear how this concern is in any way specific to prefix + delegation, since it seems to be generic to any case of having a “stub” router + that maliciously attacks its own upstream link – no matter how that router + negotiates its prefixes with upstream network nodes. Do the individuals CC'd on this list agree that this is a generic IPv6 issue and not a DHCPv6-PD-specific issue? Thanks - Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Hinden [mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:28 PM > To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> > Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>; Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; IPv6 List > <ipv6@ietf.org>; v6ops list <v6ops@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [dhcwg] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors regarding draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-pd-relay- > requirements > > I note that the lack of “challenge” does not mean anyone agrees. Agreement needs to be affirmative. > > Bob > > > > On Oct 14, 2020, at 3:24 PM, Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > > > > Bob, several messages back it was established that the issue at the heart of this > > discussion is not specific to DHCPv6 nor DHCPv6-PD. Instead, it is an issue that is > > common to any situation where there are multiple "stub" IPv6 routers on a > > downstream link from a "default" IPv6 router, no matter how the routing > > information is established or maintained. So far, no one has challenged my > > assertion that this is a generic (and not a DHCPv6-PD-specific) IPv6 issue and > > I have been waiting to see if anyone wants to challenge that. > > > > Fred > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Bob Hinden [mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 2:47 PM > >> To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> > >> Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>; Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; IPv6 List > >> <ipv6@ietf.org>; v6ops list <v6ops@ietf.org> > >> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [dhcwg] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors regarding draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-pd-relay- > >> requirements > >> > >> With my chair hat on, is there a reason why this discussion is being copied to the 6MAN w.g.? 6MAN doesn’t maintain DHCP > related > >> items. > >> > >> Please remove ipv6@ietf.org from this thread. > >> > >> Bob > >> > >> > >>> On Oct 14, 2020, at 12:19 PM, Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Michael, > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Michael Richardson [mailto:mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca] > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 11:58 AM > >>>> To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> > >>>> Cc: ianfarrer@gmx.com; Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; v6ops list <v6ops@ietf.org>; 6man > >>>> <ipv6@ietf.org> > >>>> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors regarding draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-pd- > >> relay- > >>>> requirements > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > >>>>> Michael, what I was referring to below as "failure" is the proxy case when > >>>>> there is an L2 proxy P between the client and relay (e.g., > >>>>> RFC489). There > >>>> > >>>> RFC4389 describes an ND Proxy. > >>>> Is that really an L2 proxy? > >>> > >>> Yes, I believe it is an L2 proxy. > >>> > >>>> It seems like it also must be contain either an L2-bridge, or must have the > >>>> L3-routing table entries if it would really be capable of passing DHCPv6-PD > >>>> prefixes through it. > >>> > >>> The only thing it has that includes L3 information is neighbor cache entries that > >>> keep track of the client's actual L2 address on the downstream link segment, > >>> but rewrites the client's L2 address to its own L2 address when forwarding > >>> onto an upstream link segment. (In the reverse direction, it receives packets > >>> destined to its own L2 address but the client's L3 address on the upstream > >>> link segment, then rewrites the L2 address to the client's L2 address when > >>> forwarding onto the downstream link segment.) > >>> > >>>> Can you explain how such a device would normally work for a client device > >>>> A,B,C,D doing DHCPv6-PD through it? > >>> > >>> Sure. A sends a DHCPv6 Solicit using its IPv6 link-local address as the source, > >>> and its L2 address as the link-layer source. The proxy converts the link-layer > >>> source to its own L2 address when forwarding the DHCPv6 solicit onto the > >>> upstream link. When the DHCPv6 Reply comes back, the IPv6 destination is > >>> that of client A, but the link-layer destination is the L2 address of the proxy. > >>> The proxy then converts the L2 destination to the address of client A and > >>> forwards it on to the client. > >>> > >>>> And is the failure one where the router "R" fails to drop traffic it should, > >>>> one where the router "R" drops traffic that it shouldn't? > >>> > >>> I was thinking more along the lines of the latter; if the only way that A has > >>> for talking to B, C, D, etc. is by going through R, it wouldn't work if R was > >>> unconditionally dropping everything. > >>> > >>> Thanks - Fred > >>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca> . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting ) > >>>> Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >>> ipv6@ietf.org > >>> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >
- [dhcwg] Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors reg… ianfarrer
- Re: [dhcwg] Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Question to DHCPv6 Relay I… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Question to DHCPv6 Relay I… otroan
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Question to DHCPv6 Relay I… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Question to DHCPv6 Relay I… otroan
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Question to DHCPv6 Relay I… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Question to DHCPv6 Relay I… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Question to DHCPv6 Relay I… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors… Michael Richardson
- Re: [dhcwg] Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors… Jen Linkova
- Re: [dhcwg] Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors… ianfarrer
- Re: [dhcwg] Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Rel… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors… ianfarrer
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Rel… ianfarrer
- Re: [dhcwg] Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors… Michael Richardson
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Ole Troan
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Jen Linkova
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Jen Linkova
- Re: [dhcwg] Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors… Jen Linkova
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Bjørn Mork
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Ole Troan
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Bjørn Mork
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Rel… Jen Linkova
- Re: [dhcwg] Question to DHCPv6 Relay Implementors… ianfarrer
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Michael Richardson
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… ianfarrer
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay … Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay … ianfarrer
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] Re: Question t… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay … Michael Richardson
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] Re: Question t… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] Re: Question t… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] Re: Question t… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] Re: Question t… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] Re: Question t… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay … Philip Homburg
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] Re: Question t… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] Re: Question t… Michael Richardson
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] Re: Question t… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] [v6ops] Re: Question to DH… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] [v6ops] Re: Question to DH… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] [v6ops] Re: Question to DH… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] [v6ops] Re: Question to DH… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] [v6ops] Re: Question to DH… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] Re: Question t… Michael Richardson
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] [v6ops] Re: Question to DH… Michael Richardson
- [dhcwg] how do routers with DHCPv6 relays learn w… Michael Richardson
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] [v6ops] Re: Question to DH… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Jen Linkova
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Jen Linkova
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] Re: Question t… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay … Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay … Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay … otroan
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay … Timothy Winters
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Re: Question to DHCPv6 Relay … Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] Re: Question t… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] Re: Question t… Ms. Li HUANG
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… ianfarrer
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Michael Richardson
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… ianfarrer
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Michael Richardson
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Jen Linkova
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Timothy Winters
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… ianfarrer
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] [EXTERNAL] Re: Question to DH… ianfarrer