Re: [dhcwg] We can change the world in a 1000 ways (IPv4 over IPv6)

Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org> Wed, 13 November 2013 15:49 UTC

Return-Path: <otroan@employees.org>
X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67FEB21E80AE; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 07:49:40 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.524
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gKbL++s0Thd1; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 07:49:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from banjo.employees.org (banjo.employees.org [198.137.202.19]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 931BB11E8100; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 07:49:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from dhcp-10-61-97-211.cisco.com (173-38-208-169.cisco.com [173.38.208.169]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: otroan) by banjo.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 851A35EFE; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 07:49:29 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2F487FC8-C236-4A20-BF94-EB3C4BC75553"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha512"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\))
From: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>
In-Reply-To: <4870BB66DFE30BBF780F30E6@JcK-HP8200.jck.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:49:26 +0100
Message-Id: <EC39D21A-AAC6-4600-B71A-B45C183F151A@employees.org>
References: <5ABB4DF8-95F0-4B07-8D20-6A00B7631E11@employees.org> <30650.1384272400@sandelman.ca> <C99405BD-C52D-41D8-AC68-2C9A6A036603@nominum.com> <24212.1384279979@sandelman.ca> <4870BB66DFE30BBF780F30E6@JcK-HP8200.jck.com>
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822)
Cc: Softwires <softwires@ietf.org>, "dhcwg@ietf.org WG" <dhcwg@ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org Discussion" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] We can change the world in a 1000 ways (IPv4 over IPv6)
X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: <dhcwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dhcwg>, <mailto:dhcwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dhcwg>
List-Post: <mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dhcwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg>, <mailto:dhcwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 15:49:40 -0000

>> ...
>> I'll bet if we had a single IPv4 over IPv6 solution which had
>> a clear operating cost savings over Dual-Stack, and also over
>> IPv4-only+CGN, that we'd be at universal deployment of IPv6
>> already.
> 
> Since we are engaged in a counterfactual guessing / betting
> game, I'd bet that would be true had we defined such a solution
> a decade ago, that it were realistic, and that we had stuck to
> it.  At this stage, the cartoon is relevant -- not only would we
> be likely to add another method to the list when existing ones
> already have their advocates, but dropping two or three would
> not be enough to make a significant difference.

ngtrans et al, standardised somewhere in the area of 14 transition mechanisms
for IPv6 transition. the experience from that, was that it was really hard to know
a priori which mechanism would succeed (e.g. 6rd) and which would hinder
IPv6 deployment (6to4, Teredo).

we're in the same situation with the mechanisms for the IPv4 endgame,
and all we can do is throw spaghetti on the wall.
while standardising every possible solution, isn't quite standardising at all in my book,
I don't have any good proposals for what we can do better.

is there a problem here, or should we just accept that sometimes the IETF
will generate ten sets of publications solving more or less the same problem?

cheers,
Ole