Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt
Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> Tue, 12 January 2021 18:22 UTC
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From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 10:21:53 -0800
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Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, "Dickson (US), Sean M" <sean.m.dickson@boeing.com>
To: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt
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Fred, Mark asked: "I don't understand what problem this is trying to solve or see any benefits of it. What is wrong with existing DUIDs?” I have the same question. I read the draft but have no idea why this is needed. Bob > On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:26 AM, Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > > Mark, thanks for the comments. I gather your concern is for the longevity and > immutability of the IPv6 address that would go into the DUID, since DUIDs are > meant to identify the device and not change over time. But, there are IPv6 > address generation methods that generate addresses not for the purpose of > assigning them to a physical interface (e.g., Ethernet, WiFi and the like), but > instead to provide a unique node ID for the device that never changes > [RFC7401][draft-ietf-drip-rid]. Also, [RFC7721] mentions several other IPv6 > address generation methods that could be considered for use for generating > a unique node ID, and other IPv6 address generation methods intended to > create a unique node ID could be defined in the future. > > So, again, this is not about using an IPv6 address assigned to a physical interface > as a DUID; it is about using an IPv6 address that was intentionally generated to > be a unique identifier for the node and may also be assigned to a virtual interface. > > Thanks - Fred > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mark Smith [mailto:markzzzsmith@gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 5:32 PM >> To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> >> Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; Dickson (US), Sean M <sean.m.dickson@boeing.com> >> Subject: Re: FW: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt >> >> >> Hi Fred, >> >> I don't understand what problem this is trying to solve or see any >> benefits of it. What is wrong with existing DUIDs? >> >> DHCP Unique IDentifiers are, per RFC 8415, >> >> "... designed to be unique across all DHCP clients and servers, and stable >> for any specific client or server. That is, the DUID used by a >> client or server SHOULD NOT change over time if at all possible; for >> example, a device's DUID should not change as a result of a change in >> the device's network hardware or changes to virtual interfaces (e.g., >> >> >> >> >> Mrugalski, et al. Standards Track [Page 32] >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> RFC 8415 DHCP for IPv6 November 2018 >> >> >> logical PPP (over Ethernet) interfaces that may come and go in >> Customer Premises Equipment routers). The client may change its DUID >> as specified in [RFC7844]." >> >> The only IPv6 address that I can think of that might come close to >> meeting those requirements would be an EUI-64 derived Link-Local >> address, and that is assuming that the EUI-64/hardware MAC address >> never changes. MAC address randomisation and the RFC8064 >> recommendation for use of RFC7217 for SLAAC means that Link-Local >> addresses may not meet the DUID requirements above either (RFC7217 can >> result in link-specific link-local addresses (specifically the IID >> portion is link specifc), even though the link-local prefix itself is >> constant across all links). >> >> There's also a circular dependency if the DUID is based on a GUA or >> ULA address and DHCPv6 is to then be used for stateful GAU/ULA address >> assignment, unless you mandated that SLAAC and stateful DHCPv6 are >> used in parallel so that SLAAC could be used to derive the DUID that >> is then used to acquire further ULA/GUA addresses via stateful DHCPv6 >> IA_NAs and IA_TAs. >> >> "The DUID-V6ADDR may appear in DHCPv6 and/or other protocol control >> messages (such as IPv6 ND) within a service domain when a unique ID >> based on an IPv6 address is required." >> >> In the latter case, why not use IPv6 addresses themselves? Using >> DHCPv6 Unique Identifiers outside of the DHCP protocol would be an >> abuse of a DUID. >> >> Regards, >> Mark. >> >> On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 at 05:47, Templin (US), Fred L >> <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, more and more IPv6 address generation methods are being specified that >>> intend to generate IPv6 addresses that are highly likely to be unique on either >>> a global scale or unique within a bounded service domain. So much so, that >>> some address generation methods intend for the IPv6 addresses to be usable >>> as node identifiers. >>> >>> Recognizing this, this document proposes a new DHCPv6 DUID type known >>> as "DHCP-V6ADDR" that includes an IPv6 address in the body of the DUID. In >>> this way, IPv6 addresses produced by address generation methods intending >>> to generate a node ID can be used as unique identifiers in DHCPv6 message >>> exchanges. This would introduce a single new DUID type, for which the IANA >>> allocation policy is "standards action". >>> >>> Alternatively, a separate DUID type could be allocated for each IPv6 address >>> generation method. However, that approach may result in additional IANA >>> allocations and would require implementation updates every time a new >>> address generation method is specified. Hence, a single generic DUID type >>> for all IPv6 generation methods is proposed, but open for discussion. >>> >>> Comments on the list welcome. >>> >>> Fred >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org >>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 10:21 AM >>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >>> Subject: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt >>> >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >>> >>> >>> Title : The IPv6 Address-based DHCPv6 Unique Identifier (DUID-V6ADDR) >>> Author : Fred L. Templin >>> Filename : draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt >>> Pages : 7 >>> Date : 2021-01-11 >>> >>> Abstract: >>> This document defines a new DHCPv6 Unique Identifier (DUID) type >>> called DUID-V6ADDR that contains a single 128 bit IPv6 address. >>> DUID-V6ADDR makes it possible for devices to use suitably-derived >>> unique IPv6 addresses to identify themselves to DHCPv6 servers and/or >>> other network nodes. >>> >>> >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-duid-ipv6/ >>> >>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01 >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01 >>> >>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01 >>> >>> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>> >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> I-D-Announce mailing list >>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce >>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> ipv6@ietf.org >>> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > --------------------------------------------------------------------
- [dhcwg] FW: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] FW: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ip… Mark Smith
- [dhcwg] FW: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Antonio Escalera
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: [dhcwg] FW: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ip… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Antonio Escalera
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… otroan
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Ole Troan
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Simon Hobson
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Simon Hobson
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L