Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt
Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> Tue, 12 January 2021 20:55 UTC
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From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 12:55:41 -0800
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Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, "Dickson (US), Sean M" <sean.m.dickson@boeing.com>
To: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt
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Fred, > On Jan 12, 2021, at 10:40 AM, Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > > Bob, please see my subsequent reply to Eric Vyncke that discusses motivation: > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/yOfWHSnt36Hvjr44OERjK0OFvhw/ > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dhcwg/YZq_aPf1C82ZFT_bTdXOXVXTPW0/ Sorry, I didn’t see an answer is why is this needed. At the moment I don’t see a justification for this draft. Bob > > Per your comment, perhaps a new section on "motivation" could be added > to the draft? > > Thanks - Fred > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bob Hinden [mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 10:22 AM >> To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> >> Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>; Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; IPv6 List >> <ipv6@ietf.org>; Dickson (US), Sean M <sean.m.dickson@boeing.com> >> Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt >> >> Fred, >> >> Mark asked: >> >> "I don't understand what problem this is trying to solve or see any >> benefits of it. What is wrong with existing DUIDs?” >> >> I have the same question. I read the draft but have no idea why this is needed. >> >> Bob >> >> >>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:26 AM, Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: >>> >>> Mark, thanks for the comments. I gather your concern is for the longevity and >>> immutability of the IPv6 address that would go into the DUID, since DUIDs are >>> meant to identify the device and not change over time. But, there are IPv6 >>> address generation methods that generate addresses not for the purpose of >>> assigning them to a physical interface (e.g., Ethernet, WiFi and the like), but >>> instead to provide a unique node ID for the device that never changes >>> [RFC7401][draft-ietf-drip-rid]. Also, [RFC7721] mentions several other IPv6 >>> address generation methods that could be considered for use for generating >>> a unique node ID, and other IPv6 address generation methods intended to >>> create a unique node ID could be defined in the future. >>> >>> So, again, this is not about using an IPv6 address assigned to a physical interface >>> as a DUID; it is about using an IPv6 address that was intentionally generated to >>> be a unique identifier for the node and may also be assigned to a virtual interface. >>> >>> Thanks - Fred >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Mark Smith [mailto:markzzzsmith@gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 5:32 PM >>>> To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> >>>> Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; Dickson (US), Sean M <sean.m.dickson@boeing.com> >>>> Subject: Re: FW: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Fred, >>>> >>>> I don't understand what problem this is trying to solve or see any >>>> benefits of it. What is wrong with existing DUIDs? >>>> >>>> DHCP Unique IDentifiers are, per RFC 8415, >>>> >>>> "... designed to be unique across all DHCP clients and servers, and stable >>>> for any specific client or server. That is, the DUID used by a >>>> client or server SHOULD NOT change over time if at all possible; for >>>> example, a device's DUID should not change as a result of a change in >>>> the device's network hardware or changes to virtual interfaces (e.g., >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mrugalski, et al. Standards Track [Page 32] >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> RFC 8415 DHCP for IPv6 November 2018 >>>> >>>> >>>> logical PPP (over Ethernet) interfaces that may come and go in >>>> Customer Premises Equipment routers). The client may change its DUID >>>> as specified in [RFC7844]." >>>> >>>> The only IPv6 address that I can think of that might come close to >>>> meeting those requirements would be an EUI-64 derived Link-Local >>>> address, and that is assuming that the EUI-64/hardware MAC address >>>> never changes. MAC address randomisation and the RFC8064 >>>> recommendation for use of RFC7217 for SLAAC means that Link-Local >>>> addresses may not meet the DUID requirements above either (RFC7217 can >>>> result in link-specific link-local addresses (specifically the IID >>>> portion is link specifc), even though the link-local prefix itself is >>>> constant across all links). >>>> >>>> There's also a circular dependency if the DUID is based on a GUA or >>>> ULA address and DHCPv6 is to then be used for stateful GAU/ULA address >>>> assignment, unless you mandated that SLAAC and stateful DHCPv6 are >>>> used in parallel so that SLAAC could be used to derive the DUID that >>>> is then used to acquire further ULA/GUA addresses via stateful DHCPv6 >>>> IA_NAs and IA_TAs. >>>> >>>> "The DUID-V6ADDR may appear in DHCPv6 and/or other protocol control >>>> messages (such as IPv6 ND) within a service domain when a unique ID >>>> based on an IPv6 address is required." >>>> >>>> In the latter case, why not use IPv6 addresses themselves? Using >>>> DHCPv6 Unique Identifiers outside of the DHCP protocol would be an >>>> abuse of a DUID. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Mark. >>>> >>>> On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 at 05:47, Templin (US), Fred L >>>> <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, more and more IPv6 address generation methods are being specified that >>>>> intend to generate IPv6 addresses that are highly likely to be unique on either >>>>> a global scale or unique within a bounded service domain. So much so, that >>>>> some address generation methods intend for the IPv6 addresses to be usable >>>>> as node identifiers. >>>>> >>>>> Recognizing this, this document proposes a new DHCPv6 DUID type known >>>>> as "DHCP-V6ADDR" that includes an IPv6 address in the body of the DUID. In >>>>> this way, IPv6 addresses produced by address generation methods intending >>>>> to generate a node ID can be used as unique identifiers in DHCPv6 message >>>>> exchanges. This would introduce a single new DUID type, for which the IANA >>>>> allocation policy is "standards action". >>>>> >>>>> Alternatively, a separate DUID type could be allocated for each IPv6 address >>>>> generation method. However, that approach may result in additional IANA >>>>> allocations and would require implementation updates every time a new >>>>> address generation method is specified. Hence, a single generic DUID type >>>>> for all IPv6 generation methods is proposed, but open for discussion. >>>>> >>>>> Comments on the list welcome. >>>>> >>>>> Fred >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org >>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 10:21 AM >>>>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt >>>>> >>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Title : The IPv6 Address-based DHCPv6 Unique Identifier (DUID-V6ADDR) >>>>> Author : Fred L. Templin >>>>> Filename : draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt >>>>> Pages : 7 >>>>> Date : 2021-01-11 >>>>> >>>>> Abstract: >>>>> This document defines a new DHCPv6 Unique Identifier (DUID) type >>>>> called DUID-V6ADDR that contains a single 128 bit IPv6 address. >>>>> DUID-V6ADDR makes it possible for devices to use suitably-derived >>>>> unique IPv6 addresses to identify themselves to DHCPv6 servers and/or >>>>> other network nodes. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-duid-ipv6/ >>>>> >>>>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01 >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01 >>>>> >>>>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission >>>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>>> >>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> I-D-Announce mailing list >>>>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce >>>>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >>>>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>>>> ipv6@ietf.org >>>>> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> ipv6@ietf.org >>> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >
- [dhcwg] FW: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] FW: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ip… Mark Smith
- [dhcwg] FW: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Antonio Escalera
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: [dhcwg] FW: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ip… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Antonio Escalera
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… otroan
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Ole Troan
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Simon Hobson
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-temp… Bob Hinden
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Simon Hobson
- Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-0… Templin (US), Fred L