Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...
Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Thu, 13 July 2017 01:00 UTC
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From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:59:47 -0400
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To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
Cc: "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>, "dhcwg@ietf.org" <dhcwg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...
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The relay-reply should contain the client link-layer address. On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 8:30 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com> wrote: > I mean for something to identify who made the request for the address or > delegated prefix. Otherwise, the relay may not have much other than the > link layer address (if it extracts it from the original client message, > which would kind of nasty since it requires matching up the reply with the > request). It could always encode something in the interface-identifier or > some other option. > > > > And, yes, so it might be able to match up information obtained from other > sources, such as Leasequery. > > > > - Bernie > > > > *From:* Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 12, 2017 8:25 PM > *To:* Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com> > *Cc:* Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; dhcwg@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... > > > > You mean for leasequery? We should probably scope that out. It's not > clear to me that there's an overlap in the use cases, though. > > > > On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:30 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com> > wrote: > > Ok, thanks for your use case. We'll hopefully get more. > > > > And, > > since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available > > in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments. > > > > I think this can be solved in other ways, such as via the RAAN work. > Though one issue with that is we need to figure out how to provide client > details (i.e., client-id) that might be needed by relays. > > > - Bernie (from iPad) > > > On Jul 12, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> > wrote: > > Hi Bernie, > > > > My scenario is very simple. The client and server are connected to the same > > link, and the link already supports link-layer security (e.g., IEEE > 802.1X). > > > > The client knows that it can trust the server because the server’s address > > is in a list of known server addresses for the link that cannot be > subverted > > by an adversary and there is no opportunity for source address spoofing. > > > > The server knows that the client is authorized to connect to the link > > (e.g., due to 802.1X) but the server does not know whether the client > > is authorized to use the DUID it is claiming in its DHCPv6 messages. > > For example, trusted client ‘A’ could use trusted client ‘B’s DUID to > > steal client ‘B’s service – an “insider attack”. > > > > So, what is needed from seDHCPv6 is for the client to authenticate itself > > to the server so that it cannot steal the services of another client. And, > > since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available > > in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:* Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com <volz@cisco.com>] > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:06 PM > *To:* Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; > draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... > > > > Hi Fred: > > > > Thanks for your interest. > > > > Could you clarify what you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in > terms of authentication there is: > > 1. Authenticate the server to the client > > 2. Authenticate the client to the server > > 3. Or both > > > > There are also various degrees of authentication – for example, TOFU > (Trust on First Use) to trusted third party (and what that might impose on > certificate distribution / validation). > > > > And, if you have a specific use model in mind (for example, if this is for > AERO), having a brief summary of this and the authentication requirements > would be useful. > > > > I’d also suggest that understanding why other techniques, such as 802.1X, > would not be appropriate could provide added value in understanding the > requirements. > > > > - Bernie > > > > *From:* Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com > <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>] > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM > *To:* Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools. > ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... > > > > Hi Bernie, > > > > Unfortunately, my plane does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, > if > > this work is going back to first principles I would like to express an > interest in > > an authentication-only mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would > > avoid a “double-encryption” when encryption is already provided by the > > link layer between the client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are > > already other securing mechanisms in place between relays and servers. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > > > *From:* dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org <dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org>] *On > Behalf Of *Bernie Volz (volz) > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM > *To:* draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org > *Subject:* [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... > > > > Hi: > > > > There has been some discussion (most recently off the dhcwg mailing list) > about the sedhcpv6 draft. > > > > Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a while back, there are > some issues with the current draft (including the encryption issue; the key > can’t be used to encrypt more data than the size of the key). And, while > some of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet > and it is not clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. > This work has sadly had a long road with several turns already. > > > > The discussion raised the question as to what the goals of this work > should be. Some feel that we need to step back and first develop a > “requirements document” to clearly detail what the goals of a securing > DHCPv6 should be (for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption > appropriate?). > > > > Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having an interested group > meet before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on Wednesday, 7/19 > afternoon) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strategy. If you > have interest, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in > Chez Louis (Hackathon) room – we can find a table there, or look for > another place. (If there is remote participation interest, let us know and > we’ll see what we might be able to accommodate.) > > > > We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to discuss in detail > there, but it could be helpful to have one or more proposals and, if we get > the slides out quickly, give people some time to think about it before the > WG session. > > > > - Bernie and Tomek > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > > >
- [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Templin, Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Templin, Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Templin, Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Bernie Volz (volz)