Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND
Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com> Thu, 16 November 2017 12:15 UTC
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To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Cc: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
References: <cf2e41a05fd742a3b576ee317c5392f6@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> <CAPt1N1=o+N64kdoYSSG38rwazAj_Lj9xLUV4uDCAzxbcpref1g@mail.gmail.com> <d194e3a4-620f-dde3-c836-3b5122d2805b@gmail.com> <FA0DADA0-CD16-4538-9E71-19922AD106B9@cisco.com> <c1209cd5-270e-63fe-8d78-c6371f9f56ef@gmail.com> <2907A64D-BB00-4922-BA6F-AA596AC878AB@fugue.com> <0b88f8af-2cbd-e6b2-ff22-50d682a66e8f@gmail.com> <953BFAD3-BAD7-4A1D-A102-2A6C7873052C@fugue.com> <3f898368-6222-d87c-7baa-38dea51a6980@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B80E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <8fc9efa9-764c-caf7-06e8-5eb7052dcda6@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B952@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <53ce58b6-beb6-cab0-d76b-2562d9feb2e1@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B9D1@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
From: Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 13:15:36 +0100
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND
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Le 16/11/2017 à 12:57, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com a écrit : > Alex, > > Actually, it seems that we are in agreement in almost all points :) > > The question is how this group can help fixing the modem issue (or > any other blocking filters that may be in-between clients and > servers). Maybe they can not. But until that is fixed we can not talk about DHCPv6-and-IPv6ND on cellular networks. And I dont see that fixing happening. Alex > > Cheers, Med > >> -----Message d'origine----- De : Alexandru Petrescu >> [mailto:alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com] Envoyé : jeudi 16 novembre >> 2017 12:50 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN Cc : Ted Lemon; dhcwg; >> Bernie Volz (volz) Objet : Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND >> >> Med, >> >> Thank you for the reply. I agree with some parts, but not with >> others. >> >> Le 16/11/2017 à 12:25, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com a écrit : >>> Re-, >>> >>> Please see inline. >>> >>> Cheers, Med >>> >>>> -----Message d'origine----- De : Alexandru Petrescu >>>> [mailto:alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com] Envoyé : jeudi 16 >>>> novembre 2017 12:05 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN Cc : Ted >>>> Lemon; dhcwg; Bernie Volz (volz) Objet : Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and >>>> IPv6ND >>>> >>>> Med, Which part do you disagree with in my text? >>>> >>>> I agree the problems are indeed implementation problems, >>> >>> [Med] Cool. >>> >>> but I need to >>>> understand which part do you disagree? >>>> >>> >>> [Med] I disagree that the spec needs to say that the port number >>> is >> variable. This should be left to implementers, if neede. BTW, >> configuring a distinct port number will require that the client is >> able to learn that alternate port. This will lead to more >> interoperability problems than it solves. >>> >>>> Do you disagree when I say that the entire issue about making >>>> DHCPv6 work on 3GPP should be forgotten? >>> >>> [Med] Prefix delegation can work easily in cellular networks if >>> all >> involved parties/implementers are following current specs. That >> is: >>> - The client uses the defined multicast address + service port >>> when >> issuing its solicit messages + supply prefix_exclude. >>> - The server listens on the service port + does not make any >>> assumption >> about the source IP address + treat DUIDs as opaque values that are >> only used to compare equality. >> >> I think after all this time we can safely say that the >> specification written above has never been experimented >> successfully. >> >> YEs, my ARM runs DHCPv6-PD with all the options that you required. >> Yes, the operator DHCPv6 Server is running and configured to do PD >> a /56. But no, the two have never performed a successful exchange. >> >> The problem is in the middle - the modem. >> >> It's not only me who says this. Lorenzo complained about modems >> and DHCPv6 several years ago. Others on the v6ops WG agreed with >> him. >> >> Yes, they made a wrong assertion saying the operator does not >> support DHCPv6: the operator _can_ do DHCPv6, and the assertion was >> wrong. >> >>> I'm aware that some messages are "blocked" by some chipset >>> vendors, but >> again this is an implementation issue. >> >> I checked Qualcomm and Balong modems. That represents quite a lot >> of the installed base. >> >> I will be happy to check others like Intel modems, but I dont know >> how. >> >> There is also a possibility that the specification that you write >> above, and where you refer to involved parties: maybe it's a matter >> between operator, implementers at router manufacturer and >> implementers at modem manufacturer. I do not represent any: just >> implementer of open source. >> >> A modem implementer has access to source code of the modem. >> >> A router manufacturer implementer has access to source code of >> router. >> >> Alex >> >>> I do agree with you it is frustrating. >> >> Yes. >> >> Alex >> >>> >>> Or other part? >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> Le 16/11/2017 à 11:08, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com a écrit : >>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>> >>>>> I disagree. >>>>> >>>>> The problems you are describing are implementation ones. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, Med >>>>> >>>>>> -----Message d'origine----- De : dhcwg >>>>>> [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Alexandru >>>>>> Petrescu Envoyé : jeudi 16 novembre 2017 07:38 À : Ted >>>>>> Lemon Cc : dhcwg; Bernie Volz (volz) Objet : Re: [dhcwg] >>>>>> DHCPv6 and IPv6ND >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 16/11/2017 à 06:29, Ted Lemon a écrit : >>>>>>> I'm having trouble figuring out how changing the port >>>>>>> would help. You'd still have to make the same >>>>>>> modifications. You'd still have to define a business >>>>>>> model. >>>>>> >>>>>> _If_ there is a standard that says port number is variable, >>>>>> and if hardware manufacturer implements it, then it will >>>>>> help. >>>>>> >>>>>> If not, not. >>>>>> >>>>>> If so, this entire issue about making DHCPv6 work on 3GPP >>>>>> networks should be forgotten. It's impossible to make it >>>>>> work. >>>>>> >>>>>> That puts the discussion of DHCPv6 and IPv6ND outside the >>>>>> 3GPP >> context >>>>>> altogether. >>>>>> >>>>>> For the business model: I am not an economist. >>>>>> >>>>>> Alex >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ dhcwg >>>>>> mailing list dhcwg@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg
- [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Templin, Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Templin, Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Templin, Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Masataka Ohta
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Templin, Fred L