[Diffserv-interest] Re: [Tsvwg] Re: [NSIS] PPS and MF-PHB
"MORITA, Naotaka" <morita.naotaka@lab.ntt.co.jp> Tue, 11 November 2003 17:46 UTC
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:18:37 -0600
To: Roland Bless <bless@tm.uka.de>
From: "MORITA, Naotaka" <morita.naotaka@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Cc: diffserv-interest@ietf.org, "'tsvwg@ietf.org'" <tsvwg@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Diffserv-interest] Re: [Tsvwg] Re: [NSIS] PPS and MF-PHB
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Roland, At 05:28 03/11/11 +0100, Roland Bless wrote: >Hi Naotaka, > >> >After reading draft-morita-tsvwg-mfphb-00.txt and attending your >> >presentation, I have some remarks related to this approach: >> >- I'm not quite sure whether this is really a PHB definition. >> > It seems to me, that it is actually a mix of >> > * a scheme for measured-based admission control and resource provisioning > ^^^^^^^^sorry, should have been: measurement-based >admission control >> > * a Per-Domain Behavior (see RFC 3086) >> > * a PHB group description > >> Your understanding is correct, but I do not think it is a mix. >> The key of the PPS is to utilize PHB for admission control. > >Hmm, I disagree here. A PHB usually describes an >"externally observable forwarding treatment", basically how >a node treats a packet during the forwarding procedure >(typically boils down to queue management and scheduling issues). >In your case, that both PHBs (MF-H,MF-M) get their own assigned >resources (bw limitation) and that MF-M has a higher drop precedence >than MF-H. On top of that PHB group you define an admission >control procedure with additional traffic conditioning mechanisms >(your token bucket descriptions). This fits better to a PDB >description in my opinion. And as you state in section 5: > > The Priority Promotion Scheme can be viewed as a kind of admission > control. That is right. I will check the meaning of PDP. > >> The proposed new PHB, MF-PHB refers to two-subclasses, >> but we do not have to define it as a group description. > >What you call "sub-classes" are effectively two different PHBs: you will >need two distinct DSCPs and each DSCP will be mapped to a distinct PHB >that will cause a specific packet forwarding treatment. RFC 2475 defines >a PHB group as "a set of one or more PHBs that can only be meaningfully >specified and implemented simultaneously,....". Please, see also RFC 3260 >for clarification on the AF class as a PHB group. MF-H makes not much >sense without MF-M and vice versa. However, I think your PPS admission control >scheme can be applied to an AF class as well as to the CSC PHBs, therefore you >don't need two new PHBs. But the important factor is the bandwidth limitation is shared between two sub-classes. Sequence integrity is another one. How do I describe such things by isolated PHBs? Anyway, what is CSC? > >> >- The scheme inherently relies on feedback information and it should be made >> > clear how the feedback can be provided (you mentioned RTCP as an example, >> > what about others?). >> >> Yes, it is. As the PPS, I would like to describe the feedback mechanims, >> but for a PHB, we do not have to. > >Yes, for a PHB you don't have to, but that's exactly why admission control >should be defined not together with the PHB. EF also requires some form of >admission control to achieve the timely forwarding, but admission control >procedures are not defined within RFC 3246. Your admission control procedure >will not work without feedback, but the PHBs will. Therefore, define a PDB >that defines constraints for corresponding PHBs. I see. Again, I will check PDB. > >> >- Instead of defining a new PHB, possibly two Class Selector PHBs >> > or even an AF class can be used ("green" packets get high priority after >> > admission control, "yellow" and "red" packet may be used for probing). >> > AF usually gives no guarantees for delay and jitter, however, if AF is >> > provisioned properly, "green" packets may get some guarantee. >> >> This kind of disucssion is what I wanted to do. >> Sorry for spending much time on me presentation only. >> Are you refering to Three Color Marker in RFC2697 and RFC2698? > >Not exactly, because I was not referring to packet marking, >but as in those RFCs, I used the color code as an equivalent >for the drop precedence (i.e., "green"=AFx1, "yellow"=AFx2, "red"=AFx3). >Note that, the AF class definition allows also to implement only two (instead of >three) effective different levels of loss probability for an AF class x. I will soon show you the difference between srTCM and my proposed two-threshold. > >> >- For security and robustness, it is essential to police the markings >> > for the higher priority. Otherwise the service guarantees for other users >> > are violated by a malicious or ill-behaving end-system. Therefore, I think >> > first-hop routers should do the policing (based on the feedback >> > information?). >> >> I agree. Are there any opinion about the description in pps framework >document? >> Not sufficient? > >Yes, I think some issues in 4.4 need more discussion. E.g., how do you ensure >that the feedback information is correct (you only state that "The behavior >in the direction from the destination to the source should also be correct")? >Some aspects should possibly be moved to the security section. Thank you. I will do that. For the correctness of the feedback information is a target of media monitor server. > >Best regards, > Roland > >_______________________________________________ >tsvwg mailing list >tsvwg@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg _______________________________________________ Diffserv-interest mailing list Diffserv-interest@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv-interest
- [Diffserv-interest] Re: [NSIS] PPS and MF-PHB Roland Bless
- [Diffserv-interest] Re: [Tsvwg] Re: [NSIS] PPS an… Roland Bless
- [Diffserv-interest] Re: [Tsvwg] Re: [NSIS] PPS an… MORITA, Naotaka
- [Diffserv-interest] Re: [Tsvwg] Re: [NSIS] PPS an… MORITA, Naotaka
- Re: [Diffserv-interest] Re: [Tsvwg] Re: [NSIS] PP… Roland Bless