Re: [Dime] Proposed resolutions of LOAD discussion

<lionel.morand@orange.com> Mon, 19 September 2016 22:00 UTC

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From: <lionel.morand@orange.com>
To: Maria Cruz Bartolome <maria.cruz.bartolome@ericsson.com>, Steve Donovan <srdonovan@usdonovans.com>, "dime@ietf.org" <dime@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] Proposed resolutions of LOAD discussion
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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 22:00:54 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Dime] Proposed resolutions of LOAD discussion
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Hi,

I was wondering if we could simplify in a way that would be understandable for anyone outside the current discussion.

Is something missing in the following text?

"The calculated LOAD value MUST indicate the relative capacity of a Diameter node to process or forward subsequent request messages. The method for determining the total available capacity is outside of the scope of this document.

NOTE: When the reporting node is not a server, the LOAD value reflects not only the capacity of the reporting node but also the total capacity of the Diameter nodes to which requests can be forwarded."

Lionel

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Maria Cruz Bartolome
> Envoyé : lundi 19 septembre 2016 20:45
> À : Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
> Objet : Re: [Dime] Proposed resolutions of LOAD discussion
> 
> Hello Steve,
> 
> See proposal:
> 
> "The calculated LOAD value MUST reflect the reporting Diameter node's
> capacity relative to the maximum capacity for a Diameter node in the group of
> nodes the messages are load balanced".
> 
> I removed "available" because it may be misinterpreted as "available at a
> moment in time", what is not right, it is just the maximum capacity it is offered,
> it can be reached.
> "for a Diameter node": in order to indicate that it is the maximum capacity of
> "any" of the Diameter nodes, what a Diameter node is normally offering.
> But we can limit that to the group of nodes that are receivers of messages, i.e.
> the load-balancing group.
> 
> Does it make sense to you?
> Thanks Steve
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Donovan [mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com]
> Sent: lunes, 19 de septiembre de 2016 20:35
> To: Maria Cruz Bartolome; dime@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Dime] Proposed resolutions of LOAD discussion
> 
> Actually, looking at it again, I think the following wording is needed:
> 
> "The calculated LOAD value MUST reflect the reporting Diameter node's
> capacity relative to the maximum available capacity for the set of Diameter
> nodes that are potential receiving nodes for the future messages covered by the
> LOAD report."
> 
> We probably need some words on what the set of Diameter nodes comprises, as
> it is different for HOST reports and PEER reports.
> 
> Does this work?
> 
> Steve
> 
> On 9/19/16 12:11 PM, Maria Cruz Bartolome wrote:
> > Hello Steve,
> >
> > Thanks for the clarification
> > I still think the last part of the sentence is misleading: "... relative to the
> maximum available capacity for the reporting Diameter node ".
> >
> > It should be "... relative to the maximum available capacity for a reporting
> Diameter node".
> >
> > The reasoning is that it should be relative to the maximum capacity not of that
> particular reporting node, but any of the nodes. That is, if we use SRV to provide
> the load value, the maximum load is 65535, but a particular node may just have
> a maximum capacity of e.g. 4000. Then the load value of this reporting node
> should be relative not to 4000 but to 65535, and it should be done the same for
> all nodes, in a way that the load is then comparable by the reacting node.
> > Is my point clearer now?
> > The NOTE you wrote clarified that point in fact.
> >
> > Best regards
> > /MCruz
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steve Donovan [mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com]
> > Sent: lunes, 19 de septiembre de 2016 19:02
> > To: Maria Cruz Bartolome; dime@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [Dime] Proposed resolutions of LOAD discussion
> >
> > Maria Cruz,
> >
> > I think we are saying the same thing.  My original has an unfortunate typo and
> should have read as follows:
> >
> > "The calculated LOAD value MUST reflect the sending Diameter node's
> capacity relative to the maximum available capacity for the sending Diameter
> node."
> >
> > In thinking about this, the word sending might also not be clear enough.  We
> might want to use the reporting node instead.  This would change it to the
> following:
> >
> > "The calculated LOAD value MUST reflect the reporting Diameter node's
> capacity relative to the maximum available capacity for the reporting Diameter
> node."
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > On 9/2/16 4:56 AM, Maria Cruz Bartolome wrote:
> >> Hello Steve,
> >>
> >> Thanks for the proposal.
> >> I still think the text is a bit misleading:
> >>
> >> "The calculated LOAD value MUST reflect the sending Diameter nodes
> >> capacity relative to the maximum available capacity for the sending
> >> Diameter node."
> >>
> >> I think it should be:
> >> "The calculated LOAD value MUST reflect the sending Diameter node
> >> capacity relative to the maximum available capacity for a sending
> >> Diameter node."
> >>
> >> Reasoning: a node may have a very limited maximum capacity, but the key
> point is precisely to provide a LOAD value relative to the maximum value A node
> may have.
> >>
> >> I hope this clarifies
> >> Thanks
> >> /MCruz
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Steve Donovan [mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com]
> >> Sent: martes, 30 de agosto de 2016 5:59
> >> To: Maria Cruz Bartolome; dime@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Dime] Proposed resolutions of LOAD discussion
> >>
> >> Maria Cruz,
> >>
> >> Thanks for your comments.  See my replies inline.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> On 8/25/16 5:31 PM, Maria Cruz Bartolome wrote:
> >>> Hello Steve,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the proposals, see below
> >>> Best regards
> >>> /MCruz
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Steve Donovan
> >>> Sent: martes, 16 de agosto de 2016 16:50
> >>> To: dime@ietf.org
> >>> Subject: [Dime] Proposed resolutions of LOAD discussion
> >>>
> >>> All,
> >>>
> >>> I have outlined proposed solutions for the issues raised in the discussion
> around the Diameter Load draft.
> >>>
> >>> Please let me know if I've missed anything from the discussion.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Steve
> >>>
> >>> Primary Issues:
> >>>
> >>> 1) Use of DNS SRV weighted value as format for LOAD value.
> >>>
> >>> This was discussed and agreed to early in the process.  It has the advantage
> that Diameter nodes can use a combination of values received via the DNS SRV
> interface and dynamic values received through the Diameter LOAD interface.
> While I agree that it isn't as intuitive as a straight percentage value, I don't see
> this as compelling enough of a reason to change a decision the working group
> has already made.
> >>> [MCruz] I still think using SRV values is error prone and anti-intuitive, but I
> can live with this if you really think it is not possible to re-evaluate this now.
> >> SRD> I haven't seen any argument that using the SRV values doesn't
> >> work.  As such, I prefer to not change this at this stage of the process.
> >>> 2) Need to add wording that the calculated LOAD value needs to be based
> on overall available capacity.
> >>>
> >>> I agree with Maria Cruz's comment that we need to add wording indicating
> that the calculated LOAD value needs to reflect available capacity.  To this end, I
> propose adding the following to section 6.1 (this is based on wording proposed
> by Maria Cruz):
> >>>
> >>> The calculated LOAD value MUST reflect the Diameter nodes capacity
> relative to the total available capacity across the Diameter nodes to which
> requests can be routed.  This could be either a set of Diameter endpoints or a set
> of Diameter agents, depending on the type of the LOAD report.  The method for
> determining the total available capacity is outside of the scope of this
> document.
> >>>
> >>>        Note: The LOAD value should be calculated in a way that reflects the
> available load independently of the weight of each
> >>>        server.  This allows the Diameter node that routes a request, including
> nodes doing server selection and agents routing
> >>>        requests, to accurately compare values from different nodes.  Any
> specific LOAD value needs to identify  the same
> >>>        amount of available capacity, regardless the Diameter node that
> calculates the value.
> >>>
> >>> The mechanism used to calculate the LOAD value that fulfills this
> requirement is an implementation decision.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [MCruz] Some comments to proposed text:
> >>> " The calculated LOAD value MUST reflect the Diameter nodes capacity
> relative to the total available capacity across the Diameter nodes to which
> requests can be routed. ": I think it may be misleading what is the "total
> available capacity across nodes".
> >>> See proposal:
> >>> " The calculated LOAD value MUST reflect each Diameter node capacity
> relative to the maximum available capacity for a Diameter node to which
> requests can be routed."
> >> SRD> This wording could imply that the LOAD value carries load
> >> information for multiple Diameter nodes.  How about the following:
> >>
> >> "The calculated LOAD value MUST reflect the sending Diameter nodes
> >> capacity relative to the maximum available capacity for the sending
> >> Diameter node."
> >>
> >>> 3) Wording in Appendix A.
> >>>
> >>> Before we reword Appendix A, we need to decide if it is still needed.
> >>> It was valuable in helping to generate the solution but I'm not convinced it is
> still needed in the document.  Is there objection to removing this section?
> >>>
> >>> [MCruz] I prefer this to remain, it provides some hints that may be valuable
> for first time readers.
> >> SRD> I'd like to hear other opinions on this as there is work
> >> SRD> required
> >> to make the section consistent with the mechanism defined.
> >> Implementors will still have access to this information by reviewing
> >> the history of the process of writing the specification.
> >>
> >> SRD> Are there schedule pressures in 3GPP to get this to RFC state?
> >> SRD> If
> >> so, it will be faster to just remove this section.
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> DiME mailing list
> >>> DiME@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
> 
> _______________________________________________
> DiME mailing list
> DiME@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime

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