Re: [Dime] RFC 4006 bis - IMEI

Yuval Lifshitz <ylifshitz@sandvine.com> Wed, 06 July 2016 14:58 UTC

Return-Path: <ylifshitz@sandvine.com>
X-Original-To: dime@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dime@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D526112D0D1 for <dime@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 6 Jul 2016 07:58:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.346
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.346 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UfiNQH1gtnIs for <dime@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 6 Jul 2016 07:58:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1C2912B01A for <dime@ietf.org>; Wed, 6 Jul 2016 07:58:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from WTL-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com ([fe80::68ac:f071:19ff:3455]) by WTL-EXCHP-3.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 6 Jul 2016 10:58:04 -0400
From: Yuval Lifshitz <ylifshitz@sandvine.com>
To: "lionel.morand@orange.com" <lionel.morand@orange.com>, "jouni.nospam@gmail.com" <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR)" <maryse.gardella@nokia.com>, "dime@ietf.org" <dime@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] RFC 4006 bis - IMEI
Thread-Index: AQHR0vZJ6ucLEjBkbE6Ga3VB4LLp1aADzpSAgABFm4CABgfIgIAAJcUAgAAQ6QCAAAp3gIAA30IAgABneID//+MbAA==
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2016 14:58:03 +0000
Message-ID: <C43C255C7106314F8D13D03FA20CFE4930C8ABBF@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com>
References: <F77ED24D51A356439EE433AD28B990DFC50E75CA@FR712WXCHMBA09.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E9830FDB614@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <F77ED24D51A356439EE433AD28B990DFC50E7E36@FR712WXCHMBA09.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E9830FDCF7C@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <F77ED24D51A356439EE433AD28B990DFC50E9969@FR712WXCHMBA09.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E9830FE4A5B@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <e9b91f39-ad3f-4224-0e5e-ff1b8048e23d@gmail.com> <21004_1467738570_577BE9CA_21004_4347_1_6B7134B31289DC4FAF731D844122B36E01EE3EDA@OPEXCLILM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <C43C255C7106314F8D13D03FA20CFE4930C8A972@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <19142_1467808734_577CFBDE_19142_892_1_6B7134B31289DC4FAF731D844122B36E01EE59A0@OPEXCLILM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
In-Reply-To: <19142_1467808734_577CFBDE_19142_892_1_6B7134B31289DC4FAF731D844122B36E01EE59A0@OPEXCLILM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
Accept-Language: en-CA, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [192.168.196.10]
x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dime/KLkThMmhCK1_VwaAbJ3EX_2e7pg>
Subject: Re: [Dime] RFC 4006 bis - IMEI
X-BeenThere: dime@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: Diameter Maintanence and Extentions Working Group <dime.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dime>, <mailto:dime-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dime/>
List-Post: <mailto:dime@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dime-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime>, <mailto:dime-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2016 14:58:29 -0000

Having two codes is surely better. 
My comment was regarding the current state, and the urgency of the change - since the value is overloaded in one AVP/IE in RADIUS/GTP-C, it is probably overloaded in the Diameter AVP when type is IMEISV.

-----Original Message-----
From: lionel.morand@orange.com [mailto:lionel.morand@orange.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 3:39 PM
To: Yuval Lifshitz; jouni.nospam@gmail.com; Dave Dolson; Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR); dime@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Dime] RFC 4006 bis - IMEI

There is a lot of historical stuff in 3GPP specifications, depending on the release for which the specification was first edited.

After a lot of discussion, the formats of IMEI/IMEISV have been clarified in the TS 23.003, defined as two distinct identifiers:
IMEI     = TAC | SNR |CD/SD
                  8-D    6-D     1-D

IMEISV = TAC | SNR | SVN
                  8-D    6-D     2-D

On some 3GPP interfaces, these Ids are conveyed into two different 3GPP-specific AVPs. In such a case, they is no need to use the length to different one from this other.
And we are not running out of AVP codes. So no need to encapsulate in the same AVP two values with two different semantics.

regards,

Lionel


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Yuval Lifshitz [mailto:ylifshitz@sandvine.com] Envoyé : mercredi 
> 6 juillet 2016 12:41 À : MORAND Lionel IMT/OLN; 
> jouni.nospam@gmail.com; Dave Dolson; Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR); 
> dime@ietf.org Cc : Yuval Lifshitz Objet : RE: [Dime] RFC 4006 bis - 
> IMEI
> 
> * In 3GPP TS 29.061 they use the AVP length to differentiate IMEI from 
> IMEISV in the RADIUS AVP
> * In 3GPP TS 29.060 (GTP-C) they pad with ones in case that the 
> software version is not there
> 
> So, my guess is that the gateway is probably using one of the above 
> options in when sending the value over Diameter. So, it is probably 
> safe to assume that the IMEISV enum is used to send both types of data.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of 
> lionel.morand@orange.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 8:09 PM
> To: jouni.nospam@gmail.com; Dave Dolson; Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - 
> FR); dime@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Dime] RFC 4006 bis - IMEI
> 
> For clarification, for Diameter related IANA allocation requests, it 
> is under the responsibility of CT4 secretary.
> 
> Now, as said by Dave and Jouni, we should clarify the requirement for 
> an IMEI specific value whereas only the IMEISV is actually used.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Lionel
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Jouni 
> > Korhonen Envoyé : mardi 5 juillet 2016 18:32 À : Dave Dolson; 
> > Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR); dime@ietf.org Objet : Re: [Dime] RFC 
> > 4006 bis - IMEI
> >
> > Designated experts would most likely be either Lionel or me. 
> > Basically the procedure goes like: there's a public spec (no need to 
> > be in IETF) or at least technical discussion (preferably in IETF) of 
> > the allocation need of the new code point, and once that is "done" 
> > someone does a request to IANA. Then IANA will contact the "expert", 
> > who evaluates the allocation requests and either grants or denies 
> > it. The more information there is available for the allocation 
> > requests the more
> comfortble the expert is backing up the request towards IANA.
> >
> > For example various 3GPP CT group secretaries have done allocation 
> > requests to IANA during years.
> >
> > Regarding the User-Equipment-Info-Type AVP doing the new allocation 
> > doing it in RFC4006bis would be "easy".. assuming we finish this 
> > discussion into an agreement for a need.
> >
> > - Jouni
> >
> > 7/5/2016, 8:31 AM, Dave Dolson kirjoitti:
> > > Maryse,
> > > Referring to BCP26,  https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp26,
> > > You can read about "Assignment by Designated Expert" in section 3
> > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp26#section-3
> > >
> > > I don't know who the designated expert would be, but I think the 
> > > first step
> > would be to begin a thread on the dime mailing list to request the 
> > new allocation, justifying why it is needed.
> > >
> > > Hopefully the dime chairs can provide more insight on the process.
> > >
> > > -Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR) 
> > > [mailto:maryse.gardella@nokia.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 9:16 AM
> > > To: Dave Dolson; dime@ietf.org
> > > Subject: RE: [Dime] RFC 4006 bis - IMEI
> > >
> > > Hi Dave,
> > >
> > > Do you mean, in case this new value would be needed, it is 
> > > possible to handle
> > this via IANA allocation w/o impacting existing RFC 4006? Could you 
> > clarify this for me?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Maryse
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dave Dolson
> > > Sent: vendredi 1 juillet 2016 19:11
> > > To: Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR); dime@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Dime] RFC 4006 bis - IMEI
> > >
> > > Maryse,
> > > OK, I understand your question.
> > >
> > > Reading 3GPP 23.003, IMEI and IMEISV are clearly defined as 
> > > different things
> > in sections 6.2.1 and 6.2.2.
> > > And RFC4006 specifically says IMEISV.
> > >
> > > So I would say RFC4006 is not ambiguous.
> > >
> > > Also, the most recent 3GPP 32.299 indicates "The used value is 0 
> > > for the
> > international mobile equipment identifier and software version 
> > according to 3GPP TS 23.003."
> > >
> > > It seems reasonable to extend to a Type 4 for IMEI, but there does 
> > > not seem
> > to have been a need, or there would have been an IANA allocation 
> > (which does not require RFC revision).
> > >
> > > Perhaps you could explain the need to the group?
> > >
> > > -Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR) 
> > > [mailto:maryse.gardella@nokia.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:02 AM
> > > To: Dave Dolson; dime@ietf.org
> > > Subject: RE: [Dime] RFC 4006 bis - IMEI
> > >
> > > Hi Dave,
> > >
> > > Indeed it was not clear to me whether the current definition 
> > > explicitly excluded
> > the IMEI or not.
> > > I was wondering about the behavior of the client in case the 
> > > Software Version
> > Number (SVN) is not available.
> > >
> > > Otherwise if a new value is needed for this distinction, I would 
> > > propose the User-Equipment-Info-Type AVP to be extended with IMEI 
> > > value
> > >
> > >
> > > BR
> > > Maryse
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dave Dolson
> > > Sent: jeudi 30 juin 2016 19:39
> > > To: Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR); dime@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Dime] RFC 4006 bis - IMEI
> > >
> > > Maryse,
> > >
> > > If I understand correctly, you are proposing overloading a type, 
> > > distinguishing
> > the types only by length.
> > >
> > > Is there precedent for the overloading you propose, such as a 3GPP 
> > > standard
> > or de facto standard usage that you can cite?
> > >
> > > Otherwise, IANA may assign new values for new types, and we aren't 
> > > short on
> > space:
> > > http://www.iana.org/assignments/aaa-parameters/aaa-parameters.xhtm
> > > l#
> > > aa
> > > a-parameters-41
> > >
> > >
> > > -Dave
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gardella, 
> > > Maryse (Nokia - FR)
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 12:59 PM
> > > To: dime@ietf.org
> > > Subject: [Dime] RFC 4006 bis - IMEI
> > >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > As part of the updates to RFC 4006 I propose to consider the IMEI 
> > > also when
> > refering to IMEISV, otherwise it is not clear if 
> > User-Equipment-Info-Type value O can be used for IMEI.
> > >
> > >
> > > In section 8.50. User-Equipment-Info-Type AVP in RFC4006,the 
> > > following is
> > specified:
> > >
> > >  IMEISV                          0
> > >       The identifier contains the International Mobile Equipment
> > >       Identifier and Software Version in the international IMEISV format
> > >       according to 3GPP TS 23.003 [3GPPIMEI].
> > >
> > > Which I propose to be updated as follows:
> > >
> > > IMEI(SV)                          0
> > >       The identifier contains the International Mobile Equipment
> > >       Identifier and Software Version in the international IMEISV format,
> > > 	or the International Mobile Equipment Identifier in the 
> > > international
> > IMEI format
> > >       according to 3GPP TS 23.003 [3GPPIMEI].
> > >
> > >
> > > Differentiation between IMEI (15 digits) and IMEISV (16 digits) is 
> > > based on AVP
> > length, would this work?
> > >
> > > BR
> > > Maryse
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > DiME mailing list
> > > DiME@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > DiME mailing list
> > > DiME@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > DiME mailing list
> > > DiME@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > DiME mailing list
> > > DiME@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > DiME mailing list
> > DiME@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________
> 
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations 
> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, 
> exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message 
> par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi 
> que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles 
> d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
> 
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or 
> privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not 
> be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and 
> delete this message and its attachments.
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have 
> been modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> DiME mailing list
> DiME@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.