Re: [Dime] WG Review: Recharter of Diameter Maintenance andExtensions (dime)

[Qin Wu <[e-mail]>]

RE: [Dime] WG Review: Recharter of Diameter Maintenance and Extensions (dime)Count me.
I remember there was an initial individual submission from Glen and me regarding end to end security topic. 
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zorn-dime-n2n-sec-lite-01
unfortunetely not finished due to lacking energy in the last year . 
This may serve as a good input to this topic although more input are needed.

Regards!
-Qin
----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) 
  To: Glen Zorn 
  Cc: IETF-Discussion ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; Stephen Farrell 
  Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 2:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [Dime] WG Review: Recharter of Diameter Maintenance andExtensions (dime)


  Thanks, Glen! Can we see (at least) a couple of more hands from people willing to participate in the editing of this document?

  Dan



  -----Original Message-----
  From: Glen Zorn [mailto:[e-mail]]
  Sent: Fri 1/13/2012 5:34 AM
  To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
  Cc: Stephen Farrell; jouni korhonen; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; IETF-Discussion; [e-mail]
  Subject: Re: [Dime] WG Review: Recharter of Diameter Maintenance and Extensions (dime)

  On 1/12/2012 7:15 PM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:
  > Hi,
  >
  > If a number of hands were raised now and the folks commanding them say
  > 'we are ready to work on this NOW' I would support including explicit
  > wording in the charter.

  Consider my hand raised.

  If this does not happen until the telechat next
  > week the current text is good enough to allow interested people to start
  > working on contributions that can be individual submissions. If these
  > submissions are consistent enough the WG can add the milestone later in
  > the charter and adopt the submissions as WG items.
  >
  > Dan
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >> -----Original Message-----
  >> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf
  > Of
  >> Stephen Farrell
  >> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:13 PM
  >> To: jouni korhonen
  >> Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail];
  >> [e-mail]; IETF-Discussion; [e-mail]
  >> Subject: Re: WG Review: Recharter of Diameter Maintenance and
  >> Extensions (dime)
  >>
  >>
  >> Hi Jouni,
  >>
  >> Right, I'm trying to encourage this - I'm not trying
  >> to make it a gating function for the recharter. Its
  >> still worth doing though if we can find some victims
  >> with enough energy:-)
  >>
  >> I agree that the current charter text might not need
  >> to be modified, OTOH, if there were folks who wanted to
  >> do the work, a milestone might be good. I also agree
  >> that as of now, that addition is not warranted.
  >>
  >> Cheers,
  >> S
  >>
  >> On 01/12/2012 12:08 PM, jouni korhonen wrote:
  >>>
  >>> Stephen,
  >>>
  >>> This topic raises its head every now and then when a Dime
  >>> document arrives at IESG ;) Apart from that there has been
  >>> very little serious public discussion about it recently,
  >>> for some unknown reason to me. A detail worth pointing out
  >>> is that the support for the End-to-End security framework
  >>> (E2E-Sequence AVP and 'P'-bit in the AVP header) has been
  >>> deprecated in RFC3588bis (now in IESG). So we are "free"
  >>> to start from scratch.
  >>>
  >>> If there is enough serious energy and vision for pursuing
  >>> end-to-end security, I do not see current proposed charter
  >>> text prohibiting it:
  >>>
  >>> "- Maintaining and/or progressing, along the standards track, the
  >>>     Diameter Base protocol and Diameter Applications. This includes
  >>>     extensions to Diameter Base protocol that can be considered as
  >>>     enhanced features or bug fixes."
  >>>
  >>> I would argue the end-to-end security is an enhanced feature for
  >>> Diameter base protocol that fixes a serious bug/flaw in security.
  >>> On the other hand, if an explicit note is needed about this topic
  >>> in the charter, I might hesitate to include such in this round.
  >>> I would first like to see some concrete movement&  work around
  >>> this topic.
  >>>
  >>> - Jouni
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> On Jan 11, 2012, at 7:31 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote:
  >>>
  >>>>
  >>>> Hi,
  >>>>
  >>>> During the IESG internal review of this I asked whether
  >>>> or not there was interest in trying to tackle end to
  >>>> end security for AVPs. I do know there is at least some
  >>>> interest in that but its not clear there's enough to
  >>>> warrant including it in the re-charter so I said I'd
  >>>> ask when the recharter went out for review...
  >>>>
  >>>> So - anyone interested in DIME solving that problem?
  >>>> (And willing and able to help do the work of course.)
  >>>>
  >>>> As of now, Diameter really only has hop-by-hop security
  >>>> which is ok in many cases but far from ideal (wearing
  >>>> my security hat) in some.
  >>>>
  >>>> Thanks,
  >>>> Stephen.
  >>>>
  >>>> On 01/11/2012 04:37 PM, IESG Secretary wrote:
  >>>>> A modified charter has been submitted for the Diameter Maintenance
  >> and
  >>>>> Extensions (dime) working group in the Operations and Management
  >> Area of
  >>>>> the IETF.  The IESG has not made any determination as yet.  The
  >> modified
  >>>>> charter is provided below for informational purposes only.  Please
  >> send
  >>>>> your comments to the IESG mailing list ([e-mail]) by
  >> Wednesday,
  >>>>> January 18, 2012.
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Diameter Maintenance and Extensions (dime)
  >>>>> -----------------------------------------
  >>>>> Current Status: Active
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Last Modified: 2012-01-10
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Chairs:
  >>>>>      Lionel Morand<[e-mail]>
  >>>>>      Jouni Korhonen<[e-mail]>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Operations and Management Area Directors:
  >>>>>      Dan Romascanu<[e-mail]>
  >>>>>      Ronald Bonica<[e-mail]>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Operations and Management Area Advisor:
  >>>>>      Dan Romascanu<[e-mail]>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Mailing Lists:
  >>>>>      General Discussion: [e-mail]
  >>>>>      To Subscribe:
  > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
  >>>>>      Archive:
  >>>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dime/current/maillist.html
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Description of Working Group:
  >>>>>
  >>>>> The Diameter Maintenance and Extensions WG will focus on
  >> maintenance and
  >>>>> extensions to the Diameter protocol required to enable its use for
  >>>>> authentication, authorization, accounting, charging in network
  >> access,
  >>>>> provisioning of configuration information within the network, and
  >> for
  >>>>> new AAA session management uses within the extensibility rules of
  >> the
  >>>>> Diameter base protocol.
  >>>>>
  >>>>> The DIME working group plans to address the following items:
  >>>>>
  >>>>> - Maintaining and/or progressing, along the standards track, the
  >>>>> Diameter Base protocol and Diameter Applications. This includes
  >>>>> extensions to Diameter Base protocol that can be considered as
  >> enhanced
  >>>>> features or bug fixes.
  >>>>>
  >>>>> - Diameter application design guideline. This document will
  > provide
  >>>>> guidelines for design of Diameter extensions. It will detail when
  >> to
  >>>>> consider reusing an existing application and when to develop a new
  >>>>> application.
  >>>>>
  >>>>> - Protocol extensions for the management of Diameter entities.
  > This
  >> work
  >>>>> focuses on the standardization of Management Information Bases
  >> (MIBs) to
  >>>>> configure Diameter entities (such as the Diameter Base protocol or
  >>>>> Diameter Credit Control nodes). The usage of other management
  >> protocols
  >>>>> for configuring Diameter entities may be future work within the
  >> group.
  >>>>>
  >>>>> - Protocol extensions for bulk and grouped AAA session management.
  >> The
  >>>>> aim of this work is to study and standardize a solution for
  >> handling
  >>>>> groups of AAA sessions within the Diameter base protocol context.
  >> The
  >>>>> solution would define how to identify and handle grouped AAA
  >> sessions in
  >>>>> commands and operations.
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Additionally, Diameter-based systems require interoperability in
  >> order
  >>>>> to work. The working group, along with the AD, will need to
  >> evaluate any
  >>>>> potential extensions and require verification that the proposed
  >>>>> extension is needed, and is within the extensibility rules of
  >> Diameter
  >>>>> and AAA scope. Coordination with other IETF working groups and
  >> other
  >>>>> SDOs (e.g. 3GPP) will be used to ensure this.
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Goals and Milestones:
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Done     - Submit the following two Diameter Mobility documents to
  >> the
  >>>>>             IESG for consideration as a Proposed Standards:*
  >> 'Diameter
  >>>>>             Mobile IPv6: Support for Home Agent to Diameter Server
  >>>>>             Interaction' * 'Diameter Mobile IPv6: Support for
  >> Network
  >>>>>             Access Server to Diameter Server Interaction'
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter API' to the IESG for consideration as
  >> an
  >>>>>             Informational RFC
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Quality of Service Parameters for Usage with
  >>>>>             Diameter' to the IESG for consideration as a Proposed
  >>>>>             Standard.
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter QoS Application' to the IESG for
  >>>>>             consideration as a Proposed Standard
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Support for EAP Re-authentication
  >>>>>             Protocol' as DIME working group item
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter User-Name and Realm Based Request
  >> Routing
  >>>>>             Clarifications' as DIME working group item
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Proxy Mobile IPv6' as DIME working
  >> group
  >>>>>             item
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Quality of Service Attributes for Diameter' to
  >> the
  >>>>>             IESG for consideration as a Proposed Standard
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Proxy Mobile IPv6' to the IESG for
  >>>>>             consideration as a Proposed Standard
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter User-Name and Realm Based Request
  >> Routing
  >>>>>             Clarifications' to the IESG for consideration as a
  >> Proposed
  >>>>>             Standard
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter NAT Control Application' as DIME
  >> working
  >>>>>             group item
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Capabilities Update' as DIME working
  >> group
  >>>>>             item
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Credit Control Application MIB' to the
  >>>>>             IESG for consideration as an Informational RFC
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Base Protocol MIB' to the IESG for
  >>>>>             consideration as an Informational RFC
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Capabilities Update' to the IESG for
  >>>>>             consideration as a Proposed Standard
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Extended NAPTR' as DIME working group
  >> item
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Realm-Based Redirection In Diameter' as DIME
  >>>>>             working group item
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Support for Proxy Mobile IPv6
  > Localized
  >>>>>             Routing' as DIME working group item
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Attribute-Value Pairs for
  > Cryptographic
  >>>>>             Key Transport' as DIME working group item
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Priority Attribute Value Pairs' as
  > DIME
  >>>>>             working group item
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter IKEv2 PSK' as DIME working group item
  >>>>> Done     - Submit Revision of 'Diameter Base Protocol' to the IESG
  >> for
  >>>>>             consideration as a Proposed Standard
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Attribute-Value Pairs for
  > Cryptographic
  >>>>>             Key Transport' to the IESG for consideration as a
  >> Proposed
  >>>>>             Standard
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Priority Attribute Value Pairs' to the
  >>>>>             IESG for consideration as a Proposed Standard
  >>>>> Done     - Submit Revision of 'Diameter Network Access Server
  >>>>>             Application - RFC 4005bis' as DIME working group item
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter NAT Control Application' to the IESG
  >> for
  >>>>>             consideration as a Proposed Standard
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter IKEv2 PSK' to the IESG for
  >> consideration
  >>>>>             as a Proposed Standard
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Extended NAPTR' to the IESG for
  >>>>>             consideration as a Proposed Standard
  >>>>> Done     - Submit 'Diameter Support for Proxy Mobile IPv6
  > Localized
  >>>>>             Routing' to the IESG for consideration as a Proposed
  >>>>> Mar 2012 - Submit 'Realm-Based Redirection In Diameter' to the
  > IESG
  >>>>>             for consideration as a Proposed Standard
  >>>>> Mar 2012 - Submit Revision of 'Diameter Network Access Server
  >>>>>             Application - RFC 4005bis' to the IESG for
  >> consideration as a
  >>>>>             Proposed Standard
  >>>>> May 2012 - Submit 'Diameter Application Design Guidelines' to the
  >> IESG
  >>>>>             for consideration as a BCP document Standard
  >>>>> Jul 2012 - Submit 'Diameter Support for EAP Re-authentication
  >>>>>             Protocol' to the IESG for consideration as a Proposed
  >>>>>             Standard
  >>>>> Aug 2012 - Submit a document on 'Protocol extension for bulk and
  >> group
  >>>>>             signaling' as a working group item
  >>>>> Aug 2013 - Submit a document on 'Protocol extension for bulk and
  >> group
  >>>>>             signaling' to the IESG for consideration as a Proposed
  >>>>>             Standard
  >>>>> _______________________________________________
  >>>>> IETF-Announce mailing list
  >>>>> [e-mail]
  >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
  >>>>>
  >>>> _______________________________________________
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  >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
  >>>
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