Re: [Din] Workshop on Centralization -- Final Agenda

Dirk Kutscher <ietf@dkutscher.net> Thu, 03 June 2021 18:57 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf@dkutscher.net>
X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A28223A145F for <din@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 11:57:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.897
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aczBldoaLhhC for <din@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 11:57:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 031CE3A145C for <din@irtf.org>; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 11:57:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.4.182] ([95.89.115.52]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue109 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MplPf-1l1EHd34BR-00qD9m for <din@irtf.org>; Thu, 03 Jun 2021 20:56:56 +0200
From: "Dirk Kutscher" <ietf@dkutscher.net>
To: din@irtf.org
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2021 20:56:52 +0200
X-Mailer: MailMate (1.14r5757)
Message-ID: <4C585F33-24D7-49DF-BFE9-6255E9CA081C@dkutscher.net>
In-Reply-To: <A164CAB7-C592-41CB-B010-20581E3D96BE@dkutscher.net>
References: <A164CAB7-C592-41CB-B010-20581E3D96BE@dkutscher.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_EA48E391-5294-4F22-BB7B-0AF6C2E513A7_="
X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:JXMxr8LEydJrY72Z+dNtACVvTKqgL5qB95aefRtHqWtkftw/tea wju1SixUQNl7+XWjCAf7v4uUaZ7N7Hc80gWJttA4ITeGyost4TXUcAel9GpWoYZUHII9huw szLHMLpkjgxfsB7PGBroRcmL37mL7sGXlXE4G0vvEKVXPXrnn4B9jBpS7DiBMjS1y6C8YaR S1I4GPQU9RQMONEKOrHMg==
X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:mSwwhmUN84E=:AyA2XErYPzI5ALCwQ/1N7B dDpIXIe3T1VwRwaqFh4Zal4zYT1ic8KdA6JFiH/+X6XMEGdBS2tes4WKSHyzEoyCzHC31tQk0 Jtx2duykUlaPeJ3aHsuZuVanyX+JZG1jP38ad8H5kgxnUOauP7qOpEvSUIAgwKenVRCmaF0gS CjfzNfDUoy/5xBMXlIYl13O8OANt0Mgk7IpY9EgAMJ5Lu6C7qnIoFE46nUHA0zVUvZ6W/yBkr Oxjchjwwp4v1QKL8db6y1r/7HXC1tPDJPBm+bYocSwlRN7qwBrdB6M+VNMhzEcWnIF+vMHKJb gcgh09iecCyhsKD7/MfK6nlqO2BGjIbTCgBRjlwWnazGQWK8rokw6eNM++24zjDmc792Ltozl eFl70pzuIUOLtk1h+hO/t4ZcWW7qPVkJTGt54kz3l0746BTBnlIG8KAf5/gP+9ESPgUQ0cv9v Fk2/L0t9b/E7nQ02p7JC9Ujp4s5OhjtLsuLBRFvtpxhzf1DinQ6zvu4OXcjxKEXPGvMVVRbej gb/IlPAe4x3Rvuz8SxS0Tk=
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/din/0C4TYEAPfuSFM4hGQ_8I72OM1bA>
Subject: Re: [Din] Workshop on Centralization -- Final Agenda
X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" <din.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/din>, <mailto:din-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/din/>
List-Post: <mailto:din@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:din-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din>, <mailto:din-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2021 18:57:07 -0000

Hello,

if you are asked for an account to access the MeetEcho session, please 
try to create one at https://datatracker.ietf.org (User...) if you don't 
have an account yet.

Let us know in case there are problems.

Dirk



On 1 Jun 2021, at 22:22, Dirk Kutscher wrote:

> DINRG Workshop (Interim Meeting) on the Centralization in the Internet
> ======================================================================
>
> -   June 3rd, 19:00 UTC to 22:00 UTC
> -   
> [MeetEcho](https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=ed3b91f7-04e0-4cdb-9477-f1014f5ca47b)
> -   [Meeting
>     Materials](https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-dinrg-01/session/dinrg)
> -   [Meeting Notes and
>     Bluesheet](https://codimd.ietf.org/irtf-dinrg-interim-2021-06-03)
>
> Agenda
> ------
>
> |     |                                      |             |        |
> |-----|--------------------------------------|-------------|--------|
> | 1   | Welcome and Introduction             | Chairs      | 15 min |
> | 2   | Panel \#1: WHY: Is Big Really Bad?   |             | 60 min |
> | 3   | Break                                |             | 15 min |
> | 3   | Panel \#2: HOW: How Did We Get Here? |             | 60 min |
> | 4   | Open Discussion: Feedback, Thoughts  | Chairs, All | 30 min |
>
> ### Panel \#1: WHY: Is Big Really Bad?
>
> #### Topics
>
> -   Economic, societal, regulation perspective
> -   Centralization in the Internet and Elsewhere
>
> #### Intro Talk: Geoff Huston
>
> #### Panel
>
> -   Dirk Kutscher (Moderator)
> -   Henning Schulzrinne
> -   Dominique Lazanski
> -   Geoff Huston
>
> ### Panel \#2: HOW: How Did We Get Here?
>
> #### Topics
>
> -   Architectural & technical discussion
> -   Factors enabling centralization?
>
> #### Intro Talk: Christian Huitema
>
> #### Panel:
>
> -   Lixia Zhang (Moderator)
> -   Thomas Hardjono
> -   Jari Arkko
> -   Trinh Viet Doan
> -   Christian Huitema
>
> Motivation
> ----------
>
> The networking community generally seems to agree that the Internet
> consolidation and centralization trend has progressed rapidly over the
> last few years, bringing impactful societal and economical 
> consequences.
> To counter that trend, multiple studies and activities have been
> launched to decentralize the Internet and the Web (for example see
> https://blog.mozilla.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/IHPbriefs\_decentralization\_March\_2017.pdf,
> https://solidproject.org/, and https://www.decentralizedweb.net/, plus
> various Blockchain-inspired approaches).
>
> When the internet started as a completely decentralized system 40 
> years
> back, at that time perhaps few people, if any, could have foreseen 
> where
> it is today. How did we get from there to here? What is driving
> aggregation and centralization in the Internet? What are the
> implications for industry actors and technology as well as for
> users/consumers?
>
> We believe that a good understanding of this question could make a 
> good
> first step towards understanding whether it is possible/feasible, and 
> if
> so, how, to steer the Internet away from centralization.
>
> Objectives
> ----------
>
> The objective of this workshop is to start an open discussion on the
> above question to help clearly characterize centralization in the
> Internet and to discuss its root causes. That is, before jumping to
> discussing various potential solutions, we suggest taking a step back
> and discussing how we got from there to here, and what were the 
> driving
> forces and enablers at each stage.
>
> We believe that a sound and evidence-based understanding is of key
> importance for devising any effective form of remedy and action plan. 
> In
> particular, we would like to foster an understanding on the 
> relationship
> of architectural properties and economic developments. For example,
>
> -   whether any architectural features, or lack of them, made an 
> impact
>     on the internet ecosystem developments and business models; and
> -   from a retrospective view, was there anything that might have been
>     done differently, to have an impact on the course the Internet has
>     taken?
>
> This is a complex problem with many relevant factors (technical and
> economic) and historic developments, so we would like to invite
> contributions on all of these aspects to this first workshop which may
> likely lead to further in-depth follow-up discussion. A result of this
> workshop could indeed be a more substantiated agenda for more focused
> future research in DINRG.
>
> Workshop Submissions
> --------------------
>
> This is the input that was submitted before the workshop. Thanks to 
> all
> contributors!
>
> 1.  [Measuring Web Centralization, Trinh Viet
>     Doan](https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-dinrg-01/materials/slides-interim-2021-dinrg-01-sessa-measuring-web-centralization-trinh-viet-doan-00)
> 2.  [Centralization is about Control, not Protocols, Henning
>     Schulzrinne](https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-dinrg-01/materials/slides-interim-2021-dinrg-01-sessa-centralization-is-about-control-not-protocols-henning-schulzrinne-00)
> 3.  [Protocol and Engineering Effects of Consolidation, Dominique
>     Lazanski](https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lazanski-consolidation/)
> 4.  [Centrality in the Internet, Geoff
>     Huston](https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-dinrg-01/materials/slides-interim-2021-dinrg-01-sessa-centrality-in-the-internet-geoff-huston-00)
> 5.  [We are probably doomed to Internet consolidation, but we should
>     still try do something., Christian
>     Huitema](https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-dinrg-01/materials/slides-interim-2021-dinrg-01-sessa-we-are-probably-doomed-christian-huitema-00)
> 6.  [How We Got from There to Here: Searching for the Root Cause, 
> Lixia
>     Zhang](https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-dinrg-01/materials/slides-interim-2021-dinrg-01-sessa-searching-for-the-root-cause-lixia-zhang-00)
> 7.  [Mitigation Options against Centralization in DNS Resolvers, Jari
>     Arkko](https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-dinrg-01/materials/slides-interim-2021-dinrg-01-sessa-mitigation-options-against-centralization-in-dns-resolvers-jari-arkko-00)
> 8.  [Decentralization != Equality?, Trinh Viet
>     Doan](https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-dinrg-01/materials/slides-interim-2021-dinrg-01-sessa-decentralization-equality-trinh-viet-doan-00)
> 9.  [Decentralized Data Infrastructures for the New Digital Economy,
>     Thomas
>     Hardjono](https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-dinrg-01/materials/slides-interim-2021-dinrg-01-sessa-decentralized-data-infrastructures-for-the-new-digital-economy-thomas-hardjono-00)
> 10. [Autonomy is the real goal, Phillip
>     Hallam-Baker](https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-dinrg-01/materials/slides-interim-2021-dinrg-01-sessa-autonomy-is-the-real-goal-phillip-hallam-baker-00)
> 11. [Focus on Standards Adoption, Charles
>     Eckels](https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-dinrg-01/materials/slides-interim-2021-dinrg-01-sessa-focus-on-standards-adoption-charles-eckels-00)
> _______________________________________________
> Din mailing list
> Din@irtf.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din