Re: [Din] [IRTF-Announce] Decentralized Internet Infrastructure (dinrg) RG Virtual Meeting: 2021-06-03 CHANGED
Dirk Kutscher <ietf@dkutscher.net> Mon, 31 May 2021 18:53 UTC
Return-Path: <ietf@dkutscher.net>
X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AB003A226A for <din@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 31 May 2021 11:53:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.903
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.347, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_BL=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_L5=0.001, RCVD_IN_SBL=0.141, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL=1.31, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ILMb4UruhMyH for <din@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 31 May 2021 11:53:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mout-xforward.kundenserver.de (mout-xforward.kundenserver.de [82.165.159.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1F3B3A2268 for <din@irtf.org>; Mon, 31 May 2021 11:53:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.93] ([95.89.115.52]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue109 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MC2sF-1lfnM72UW5-00CSMi; Mon, 31 May 2021 20:52:58 +0200
From: Dirk Kutscher <ietf@dkutscher.net>
To: Curtis Villamizar <curtis@orleans.occnc.com>
Cc: din@irtf.org
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 20:52:55 +0200
X-Mailer: MailMate (1.14r5757)
Message-ID: <3C6D2110-DF3D-45FD-AF06-F9DA782DFB36@dkutscher.net>
In-Reply-To: <20210526014851.E33C13A1849@ietfa.amsl.com>
References: <20210526014851.E33C13A1849@ietfa.amsl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:TaYYv6YUM60rZLp57rPfpt/p6Z/a8Tis+v7a0Qni+11fucRhmxV LsbKyJ20wpHf3CXkUqqgOoFdH6IBUZZoc9vHzO59VvE95RjG/EwMB7xwjr1mkgwjE4YQSc2 F94vGbhTXdF3DRLSq4M7pnGK28+CB//rR7nyv9xc9R9yxan74JOQVGrcKe56ORoKnRJUFj5 YFv4Klckho3K3kgXoJJlg==
X-UI-Out-Filterresults: junk:10;V03:K0:UyB4b/KGXpw=:wwUM5VnPwpPKh9y9RwlSKsrr KWqtF3PK1FssdaccR46AdXTaJqzRrYR/52qSw6yrMnV5Xk+axBR+ZC3D/AtlQTLLQOxhsfRF5 05kwRR3yJXpC/EQbaA/GxKhtcJjN22mA7dtXKHPbq2fH59W8nDZB+9407Nrdk7mohHvBM46Sk rAWwKhWoVTItvAcVPsoYFpOH2VhmhoGr2oYn32oNeXnC2S1gD95ri0j10IKMzRuB/4b1ujkG+ XGq4CCCtjq8y8fseUZKrAyd8ayUFe4vLllrN5x0TSuWXcqILfAroF0VZtqCFOlGhpjDiz1ECC cowCToAKoSsx17BpXP/8ppTbw3Yr55pS8Q5XvyTwnAE3QL6DD12u+Bi0D8vXb40SS7iWuIQKC 1liBuvB0/DkFgN+ohou+GduaXPRnFiEFW4zBa1kL/JuVeQvvCYlOHonS19mMYmMUo1Dyxw43T cH1JfLIK0OmyrsdigunIWRowDGrfTuS5KeUNH5o8EFRR0eEV0p92hOT5w3cukvTL7gmEHh4bc K8MpEfOtrF1ZbmG7R6DD/fe0h6lsqafmw5Ss96YKITl01Dp+uNZ9s7KAi4sgMfRBWKnUFwjAu AJOoyII0qpNp8bif6sEFUXWcWBNSPgt5
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/din/28hE9iqU8xLckzJtyWkq8q84QSo>
Subject: Re: [Din] [IRTF-Announce] Decentralized Internet Infrastructure (dinrg) RG Virtual Meeting: 2021-06-03 CHANGED
X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" <din.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/din>, <mailto:din-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/din/>
List-Post: <mailto:din@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:din-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din>, <mailto:din-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 18:53:13 -0000
Hi Curtis, > Here is a place to start. Web browsers could support DANE so that we > are not dependent on a predetermined set of CA with URLs not bound to > a specific CA so a bad actor (government for example) who has had a CA > accepted to the set included with browsers can make up their own > certificates for any site for the purpose of a man-in-the-middle atack > as long as they don't get caught or can coerce others to look the > other way (ie: claim lawful intercept). > > The system of a set of equally trusted CAs is the web's largest single > flaw. > > No new protocols needed for that one. Those who prefer not to use > DNSSEC and DANE can continue to use the bag of CAs included with the > browser. Thanks for the input. Without discussing the merits and deployment status of DANE today, I just wanted to say that the meeting on Thursday is going to be rather problem-oriented (which could include the web certificate trust architecture of course). Hope to see you there, Dirk > > Curtis > > > In message <162196876495.10287.15267417001061504362@ietfa.amsl.com> > IESG Secretary writes: >> >> MEETING DETAILS HAVE CHANGED. SEE LATEST DETAILS BELOW. >> >> The Decentralized Internet Infrastructure (dinrg) RG will hold >> a virtual interim meeting on 2021-06-03 from 19:00 to 22:00 UTC. >> >> Agenda: >> # DINRG Workshop (Interim Meeting) on the Centralization in the >> Internet >> >> We are planning an online workshop for the start of June that is >> intended to enable a principled discussion on Centralization in the >> Internet and its root causes. >> >> ## Motivation >> The networking community generally seems to agree that the Internet >> consolidation and centralization trend has progressed rapidly over >> the last few years, bringing impactful societal and economical >> consequences. To counter that trend, multiple studies and activities >> have been launched to decentralize the Internet and the Web (for >> example see >> https://blog.mozilla.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/IHPbriefs_decentralization_March_2017.pdf, >> https://solidproject.org/, and https://www.decentralizedweb.net/, >> plus various Blockchain-inspired approaches). >> >> When the internet started as a completely decentralized system 40 >> years back, at that time perhaps few people, if any, could have >> foreseen where it is today. How did we get from there to here? What >> is driving aggregation and centralization in the Internet? What are >> the implications for industry actors and technology as well as for >> users/consumers? >> >> We believe that a good understanding of this question could make a >> good first step towards understanding whether it is >> possible/feasible, and if so, how, to steer the Internet away from >> centralization. >> >> ## Objectives >> The objective of this workshop is to start an open discussion on the >> above question to help clearly characterize centralization in the >> Internet and to discuss its root causes. That is, before jumping to >> discussing various potential solutions, we suggest taking a step back >> and discussing how we got from there to here, and what were the >> driving forces and enablers at each stage. >> >> We believe that a sound and evidence-based understanding is of key >> importance for devising any effective form of remedy and action plan. >> In particular, we would like to foster an understanding on the >> relationship of architectural properties and economic developments. >> For example, >> * whether any architectural features, or lack of them, made an impact >> on the internet ecosystem developments and business models; and >> * from a retrospective view, was there anything that might have been >> done differently, to have an impact on the course the Internet has >> taken? >> >> This is a complex problem with many relevant factors (technical and >> economic) and historic developments, so we would like to invite >> contributions on all of these aspects to this first workshop which >> may likely lead to further in-depth follow-up discussion. A result of >> this workshop could indeed be a more substantiated agenda for more >> focused future research in DINRG. >> >> ## How to Contribute >> **Please send a message until May 16th EOB to dinrg-chairs@irtf.org** >> if you are interested to contribute to the workshop. We ask that you >> include a 1-page abstract (no special formatting requirements) of >> your intended contribution that would help us to to categorize inputs >> and to have a record of the different perspectives in the workshop >> proceedings (DINRG meeting material). >> >> ## Format >> * DINRG online interim meeting, with open participation >> * 3 hours duration with one break >> * Lightning talks on different aspects of the problem >> * Ample time for discussion >> >> ## Logistics >> * Date and time: Thursday, June 3rd 2021 1900 UTC, 21:00 CEST / 05:00 >> AEST (Fri) / 12:00 PDT / 09:00 HST (tentatively) >> * Duration: 3 hours with a break in the middle >> * MeetEcho (Online as an IRTF DINRG meeting) -- details TBA on DINRG >> list >> >> >> Information about remote participation: >> MeetEcho: >> https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=ed3b91f7-04e0-4cdb-9477-f1014f5ca47b > > _______________________________________________ > Din mailing list > Din@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din
- [Din] Decentralized Internet Infrastructure (dinr… IESG Secretary
- Re: [Din] [IRTF-Announce] Decentralized Internet … Curtis Villamizar
- Re: [Din] [IRTF-Announce] Decentralized Internet … Dirk Kutscher