Re: [Din] Updated charter proposal

Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Sun, 15 July 2018 04:20 UTC

Return-Path: <eckert@i4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F4C8130F46 for <din@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 21:20:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.95
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.95 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sb6w_j2nYcW8 for <din@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 21:20:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBB8E130F43 for <din@irtf.org>; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 21:20:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8574358C4AF; Sun, 15 Jul 2018 06:20:07 +0200 (CEST)
Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 6DEEB4402CB; Sun, 15 Jul 2018 06:20:07 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 06:20:07 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: "Christian.Hoeppler" <Christian.Hoeppler@de.bosch.com>
Cc: din@irtf.org
Message-ID: <20180715042007.vmvy5xrsbu6r3tzb@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
References: <76cd5da5-c2ba-dc04-e1bb-6ffd49f94eb3@nomountain.net> <D56BEA89-1EDA-47C1-8072-102DB2B1361A@ulusofona.pt> <20180713153505.csx5ih4g3ynhsrkk@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <A397738A-7F2D-43D8-9914-E85ABC40A40A@telefonica.com> <41aad02d-2b9a-e0a3-b8ee-b4760bf6d4a3@nomountain.net> <20180714221111.5bshkw6ucr3pf6zn@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <DA5610F4-B8E2-48CC-9885-83ECF1D89DD0@gmail.com> <20180714231040.6w32ujd56pd6ft2n@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <57ff6135-63b7-62b6-2240-3903e9754cb6@de.bosch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <57ff6135-63b7-62b6-2240-3903e9754cb6@de.bosch.com>
User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/din/VgRQHsX86c76W-vcbBIc-TgZRJY>
Subject: Re: [Din] Updated charter proposal
X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" <din.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/din>, <mailto:din-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/din/>
List-Post: <mailto:din@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:din-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din>, <mailto:din-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 04:20:15 -0000

On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 03:58:08AM +0200, Christian.Hoeppler wrote:
> On 07/15/2018 01:10 AM, Toerless Eckert wrote:
> > You are comparing a system (CDN) with one of its aspect (control),
> > that was not the question.
> > 
> > Would you call the overall CDN non-decentralized, and if so, why ?
> 
> Well, I'd not call it decentralized, if an essential aspect or subsystem
> is highly centralized.

So you would call a composite system distributd if _SOME_ aspects
are decentralized, and decentralized if _ALL_ aspects are decentralized ?

Aka: i think this is all dfficult and will take a long time to agree on,
so bad idea trying to define scope of charter on such ambiguously interpreted
terms.

> Cf. https://news.earn.com/quantifying-decentralization-e39db233c28e for
> an approach how decentralization may be quantified.

Nice, thanks. And blockchains are simple systems composed from few
functions with little structure (compared to a typical network and
all its L2..L9 functions).

Cheers
    Toerless

> Best,
> Chris
> 
> > On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 06:20:19PM -0400, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> >> CDNs are a textbook example of a widely distributed system with highly centralized control.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Din mailing list
> Din@irtf.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din