Re: [Din] [IRTF-Announce] Decentralized Internet Infrastructure (dinrg) RG Virtual Meeting: 2021-06-03 CHANGED

Curtis Villamizar <> Wed, 26 May 2021 01:48 UTC

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From: Curtis Villamizar <>
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Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 21:46:30 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Din] [IRTF-Announce] Decentralized Internet Infrastructure (dinrg) RG Virtual Meeting: 2021-06-03 CHANGED
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Here is a place to start.  Web browsers could support DANE so that we
are not dependent on a predetermined set of CA with URLs not bound to
a specific CA so a bad actor (government for example) who has had a CA
accepted to the set included with browsers can make up their own
certificates for any site for the purpose of a man-in-the-middle atack
as long as they don't get caught or can coerce others to look the
other way (ie: claim lawful intercept).

The system of a set of equally trusted CAs is the web's largest single

No new protocols needed for that one.  Those who prefer not to use
DNSSEC and DANE can continue to use the bag of CAs included with the


In message <>
IESG Secretary writes:
> The Decentralized Internet Infrastructure (dinrg) RG will hold
> a virtual interim meeting on 2021-06-03 from 19:00 to 22:00 UTC.
> Agenda:
> # DINRG Workshop (Interim Meeting) on the Centralization in the Internet
> We are planning an online workshop for the start of June that is intended to enable a principled discussion on Centralization in the Internet and its root causes.
> ## Motivation
> The networking community generally seems to agree that the Internet consolidation and centralization trend has progressed rapidly over the last few years, bringing impactful societal and economical consequences. To counter that trend, multiple studies and activities have been launched to decentralize the Internet and the Web (for example see,, and, plus various Blockchain-inspired approaches).
> When the internet started as a completely decentralized system 40 years back, at that time perhaps few people, if any, could have foreseen where it is today. How did we get from there to here? What is driving aggregation and centralization in the Internet? What are the implications for industry actors and technology as well as for users/consumers?
> We believe that a good understanding of this question could make a good first step towards understanding whether it is possible/feasible, and if so, how, to steer the Internet away from centralization.
> ## Objectives
> The objective of this workshop is to start an open discussion on the above question to help clearly characterize centralization in the Internet and to discuss its root causes. That is, before jumping to discussing various potential solutions, we suggest taking a step back and discussing how we got from there to here, and what were the driving forces and enablers at each stage.
> We believe that a sound and evidence-based understanding is of key importance for devising any effective form of remedy and action plan. In particular, we would like to foster an understanding on the relationship of architectural properties and economic developments. For example,
> * whether any architectural features, or lack of them, made an impact on the internet ecosystem developments and business models; and
> * from a retrospective view, was there anything that might have been done differently, to have an impact on the course the Internet has taken?
> This is a complex problem with many relevant factors (technical and economic) and historic developments, so we would like to invite contributions on all of these aspects to this first workshop which may likely lead to further in-depth follow-up discussion. A result of this workshop could indeed be a more substantiated agenda for more focused future research in DINRG.
> ## How to Contribute
> **Please send a message until May 16th EOB to** if you are interested to contribute to the workshop. We ask that you include a 1-page abstract (no special formatting requirements) of your intended contribution that would help us to to categorize inputs and to have a record of the different perspectives in the workshop proceedings (DINRG meeting material).
> ## Format
> * DINRG online interim meeting, with open participation
> * 3 hours duration with one break
> * Lightning talks on different aspects of the problem
> * Ample time for discussion
> ## Logistics
> * Date and time: Thursday, June 3rd 2021 1900 UTC, 21:00 CEST / 05:00 AEST (Fri) / 12:00 PDT / 09:00 HST (tentatively)
> * Duration: 3 hours with a break in the middle
> * MeetEcho (Online as an IRTF DINRG meeting) -- details TBA on DINRG list
> Information about remote participation:
> MeetEcho: