Re: [ietf-dkim] Re: Use of LWSP in ABNF -- consensus call

Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> Fri, 18 May 2007 14:23 UTC

Return-path: <discuss-bounces@apps.ietf.org>
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp3MT-0006we-8M; Fri, 18 May 2007 10:23:17 -0400
Received: from discuss by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp3MS-0006wZ-SD for discuss-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 10:23:16 -0400
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp3MS-0006wR-IZ for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 10:23:16 -0400
Received: from ppsw-7.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.137]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp3MQ-0004HI-5m for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 10:23:16 -0400
X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned
X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found
X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/
Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50580) by ppsw-7.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.157]:25) with esmtpa (EXTERNAL:fanf2) id 1Hp3MO-0003io-Mj (Exim 4.63) (return-path <fanf2@hermes.cam.ac.uk>); Fri, 18 May 2007 15:23:12 +0100
Received: from fanf2 (helo=localhost) by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (hermes.cam.ac.uk) with local-esmtp id 1Hp3MO-0001Ul-0e (Exim 4.54) (return-path <fanf2@hermes.cam.ac.uk>); Fri, 18 May 2007 15:23:12 +0100
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 15:23:12 +0100
From: Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at>
X-X-Sender: fanf2@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
Subject: Re: [ietf-dkim] Re: Use of LWSP in ABNF -- consensus call
In-Reply-To: <4EB341F4BEA39A01B2F9C84D@p3.JCK.COM>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0705181510550.26169@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk>
References: <BFE21101-5BC4-45FA-8905-89C2D4A1E593@osafoundation.org> <4648E8CB.3010502@dcrocker.net> <F5C06D62-639B-40CB-803F-6D9E50673768@osafoundation.org> <4649FA12.30909@alvestrand.no> <4649FB9A.9000107@bbiw.net> <1504A69099CF1B62F66FE576@p3.JCK.COM> <tsllkfnwgfb.fsf@mit.edu> <E09D6916A9D19A52976E4567@p3.JCK.COM> <tsl7ir7utz8.fsf@mit.edu> <CF36D27A6AC084536D6D8F24@[192.168.1.119]> <4512BF1B1B2C8C4A9487E733@p3.JCK.COM> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0705180849560.12940@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk> <4EB341F4BEA39A01B2F9C84D@p3.JCK.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2
Cc: Apps Discuss <discuss@apps.ietf.org>, IETF General Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>, ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org
X-BeenThere: discuss@apps.ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: general discussion of application-layer protocols <discuss.apps.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss>, <mailto:discuss-request@apps.ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:discuss@apps.ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:discuss-request@apps.ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss>, <mailto:discuss-request@apps.ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: discuss-bounces@apps.ietf.org

On Fri, 18 May 2007, John C Klensin wrote:
> On Friday, 18 May, 2007 09:00 +0100 Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at>
> wrote:
> >
> > 	NTWSP = [CRLF] 1*WSP ; non-trailing white space
>
> Sure.  Except that much, if not most, of our textual
> descriptions of these protocols describes lines, and line-like,
> constructions as _ending_ in CRLF.  Moving to  "starting in
> CRLF" creates a conceptual difference between prose definition
> and formal syntax, which strikes me as a bad idea.

Don't do that then. The suggestion I made above was for a no-trailing-
whitespace variant of 2822's FWS, and as such it would be used in a
grammar inside a logical line, not at either end. You seem to be inventing
problems that might occur in badly-designed grammars, and as such these
are bugs in the grammars and not due to limitations of ABNF (which, after
all, is equivalent to any other notation for describing context-free
grammars).

> Of course, in the above, since [CRLF] is optional, "1*WSP" alone
> satisfies the production as written and still does not prevent
>    <CRLF> space space space
>    <CRLF>

Um, no, because WSP = SP / HTAB

Tony.
-- 
f.a.n.finch  <dot@dotat.at>  http://dotat.at/
SOUTHEAST ICELAND: CYCLONIC, BECOMING NORTHERLY GALE 8 OR SEVERE GALE 9,
DECREASING 6 OR 7. ROUGH OR VERY ROUGH, OCCASIONALLY HIGH. SHOWERS. MODERATE
OR GOOD.