Re: [dispatch] HELIUM at Dispatch

Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com> Wed, 11 July 2018 21:47 UTC

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From: Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 17:47:33 -0400
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To: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
Cc: Dispatch WG <dispatch@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [dispatch] HELIUM at Dispatch
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On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 4:02 PM Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 3:15 PM Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:
>
>> [as an individual]
>>
>> This is small, but it's going to be a recurring papercut if this works
>> gains traction: I'm having a really hard time reading a document talking
>> about "HIP" that is in no way related to
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/hip/about/ -- please consider renaming
>> this protocol.
>>
>
> OK, will do.
>
> It would probably also be worthwhile explaining how the features of HELIUM
>> are significantly different than RFC 1928. I see raw IP tunneling and
>> WebSocket support as differentiators, but it's not clear that this requires
>> restarting the protocol from ground zero rather than extending an existing
>> extensible protocol.
>>
>> Lest my suggestion above be perceived as tongue-in-cheek, I'm dead
>> serious: RFC 1928 is used extensively by the Tor network, and there is a
>> fair body of deployed code in modern use, at least in that context.
>>
>
> I've written a lot of code for RFC 1928 (SOCKS 5) myself, including the
> rarely used SOCKS5-UDP support, so I fully appreciate this.  Alternatively
> TURN also supports UDP, and with RFC 6062 can proxy TCP too.  I do feel
> that a clean-slate design is worthwhile in this case, but you're right that
> I haven't really tried to argue that in the draft.  I'll think about the
> right way to make that claim.
>

For completeness, I also want to mention the current SOCKS 6 proposal:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6


>
>
>>
>> /a
>>
>> On 7/11/18 12:27 PM, Ben Schwartz wrote:
>>
>> Hi Dispatch,
>>
>> One of the drafts on the Dispatch agenda for next week is HELIUM:
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-schwartz-httpbis-helium-00.
>>
>> There has been some discussion on the HTTP list (e.g.
>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2018JulSep/0041.html),
>> but the most detailed presentation on this proposal will be here in
>> Dispatch.
>>
>> HELIUM has relevance to privacy protection, P2P through NAT, VPNs,
>> advanced IP features, QUIC, and congestion control, among other topics.  I
>> hope anyone who's interested will read the draft (or at least the
>> introduction) before our session on Monday.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ben
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>