From nobody Wed Jun 23 00:00:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B49E83A09DB for ; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 00:00:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5v5lh-d9ZYMI for ; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 00:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 6.mo1.mail-out.ovh.net (6.mo1.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.43.205]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A78B73A1151 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 00:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from player699.ha.ovh.net (unknown [10.110.171.50]) by mo1.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F3CF20B6AC for ; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 09:00:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hoplahup.net (p5dc6fdae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.198.253.174]) (Authenticated sender: paul@hoplahup.net) by player699.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 703CB1F7524A1; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 07:00:27 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: garm.ovh; auth=pass (GARM-102R00477a654e3-c2e8-49c9-87fc-06433261e639, 62D18D71EE23157A8A05E6810D9E71CD751EDB68) smtp.auth=paul@hoplahup.net X-OVh-ClientIp: 93.198.253.174 From: "Paul Libbrecht" To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" Cc: media-types@ietf.org, "John C Klensin" , "Mark Nottingham" , "DISPATCH list" , "Ned Freed" Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 09:00:26 +0200 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.14r5757) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <01RYY5BDVHVK0085YQ@mauve.mrochek.com> <5F193852-2CBE-4885-A7E9-14B377DFB5E2@mnot.net> <01RZSLCQGG9Y00IM2V@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_199EF85E-A611-4A17-B1AB-67CB2EA3C675_=" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Embedded-HTML: [{"plain":[1031, 1294], "uuid":"6D088197-3379-4C68-93EC-AB212EA02B30"}] X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 15857737241212684421 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: -100 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrfeegvddguddtiecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjpdevjffgvefmvefgnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucehtddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefhvffufffokfgjfhggtgfgsegrkehmreertdejnecuhfhrohhmpedfrfgruhhlucfnihgssghrvggthhhtfdcuoehprghulheshhhophhlrghhuhhprdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedugeegteduueejfeeugfetieekhfehueffffdthedvleegtdelgefftdfhvdethfenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecukfhppedtrddtrddtrddtpdelfedrudelkedrvdehfedrudejgeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdqohhuthdphhgvlhhopehplhgrhigvrheileelrdhhrgdrohhvhhdrnhgvthdpihhnvghtpedtrddtrddtrddtpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepphgruhhlsehhohhplhgrhhhuphdrnhgvthdprhgtphhtthhopeguihhsphgrthgthhesihgvthhfrdhorhhg Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] [media-types] Proposed/draft charter for "mediaman" X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 07:00:43 -0000 --=_MailMate_199EF85E-A611-4A17-B1AB-67CB2EA3C675_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Murray, Here are two reasons that I think may be convincing to change the template: - the old Macintosh 4-letter code is long dead - macOS UTIs are and have always been specified by Apple. Finding documentation on them is often a sport. As far one could see until 2010: no more registration, applications are free to register UTIs. As a side effect of the proprietary nature, it appears that around 2010 Apple started to indicate that the `public` subtree of the UTIs is reserved to types declared by Apple. Other documentation pages still do not mention this. As a result… Some UTI declarations (e.g. in use in widespread desktop apps) thus have become invalid. The media-type inclusion of UTIs can help against this unpredictability. You are right that clipboard types tend not to be a super-fashionable topic and I find it rather good that this does not trigger a flood of mails such as the discussion on the necessity of a new prefix. Thanks in advance. Paul On 23 Jun 2021, at 0:36, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 11:00 PM Paul Libbrecht > wrote: > >> I am wondering if the group is the right place to prepare an update >> of the >> registration template so as remove the Macintosh 4-letter-codes and >> insert >> clipboard flavours for windows and universal type identifiers for >> macOS. >> >> This was discussed a few times on this mailing list. >> I have been in contact with a few media-type proposers, some of which >> have >> accepted a change of their declaration in this direction. >> I have been in contact with one IETF-aware person to update RFC6838 >> but >> that has not progressed. >> > > There's been no feedback from anyone else, up or down, about this > idea. My > own impression is that this isn't quite within scope of what we're > talking > about for this effort, but then again it makes sense to include this > now > rather than spin up a subsequent effort or wait for the next train. > Naturally I'm happy to include this in the proposed charter if there's > consensus to include it. > > I'm just about to enqueue the charter we have in hand for its first > IESG > review pass before it goes out for general review. If this or any > other > change should be included in that submission, please (everyone, > anyone) say > something sooner rather than later. > > -MSK > _______________________________________________ > media-types mailing list > media-types@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/media-types --=_MailMate_199EF85E-A611-4A17-B1AB-67CB2EA3C675_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Murray,

Here are two reasons that I think may be convincing to ch= ange the template:

  • the old Macintosh 4-letter code is long dead
  • macOS UTIs are and have always been specified by Apple. Finding docum= entation on them is often a sport. As far one could see until 2010: no mo= re registration, applications are free to register UTIs. As a side effect= of the proprietary nature, it appears that around 2010 Apple started to = indicate that the public subtree= of the UTIs is reserved to types declared by Apple. Other documentation = pages still do not mention this. As a result=E2=80=A6 Some UTI declaratio= ns (e.g. in use in widespread desktop apps) thus have become invalid. The= media-type inclusion of UTIs can help against this unpredictability.

You are right that clipboard types tend not to be a super= -fashionable topic and I find it rather good that this does not trigger a= flood of mails such as the discussion on the necessity of a new prefix.<= /p>

Thanks in advance.

Paul

On 23 Jun 2021, at 0:36, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:

On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 11:00 PM= Paul Libbrecht <paul@hoplahup.ne= t> wrote:
I= am wondering if the group is the right place to prepare an update of the= registration template so as remove the Macintosh 4-letter-codes and inse= rt clipboard flavours for windows and universal type identifiers for macO= S.

This was discussed a few times on this mailing list.
I have been in contact with a few media-type proposers, some of which hav= e accepted a change of their declaration in this direction.
I have been in contact with one IETF-aware person to update RFC6838 but t= hat has not progressed.


There's been n= o feedback from anyone else, up or down, about this idea.=C2=A0 My own im= pression is that this isn't quite within scope of what we're talk= ing about for this effort, but then again it makes sense to include this = now rather than spin up a subsequent effort or wait for the next train.=C2= =A0 Naturally I'm happy to include this in the proposed charter if th= ere's consensus to include it.

I'm j= ust about to enqueue the charter we have in hand for its first IESG revie= w pass before it goes out for general review.=C2=A0 If this or any other = change should be included in that submission, please (everyone, anyone) s= ay something sooner rather than later.

-MSK
<= /div>

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