Re: [dispatch] Event Streaming Open Network Draft & BoF Request

[Emiliano Spinella <[e-mail]>]

Hello Tim, thanks for your feedback!

Let me address your points:


*(a) a standardized framework such as proposed here would be generally
useful, but (b) it would be a ton of work and I'd be hesitant to take it on
without plausible commitments to put the work in.*

Yes, but maybe the topic is worthy of a discussion within the IETF.



*The draft is immensely long and the ratio of motivation and evangelism to
specification much too high, but the breakdown of components seems broadly
sane. *

This document is an extract from my Master's thesis, so it definitely needs
to be reworked to match the audience. This is the first time I publish an
I-D so any advice is appreciated.



*There are issues, for example: (a) it wouldn’t be OK to require
Kubernetes, or specific programming languages for compliance and*

Yes. The implementation section within the draft is an initial approach,
specially for the PoC described at the end. There could be many approaches
and not necessarily described in an IETF document.



*(b) the draft doesn't say anything about message schemas, which are a big
and fairly central problem in these applications.*

Schemas are referenced within the document as "Payload Format". This
nomenclature is based on the distinctions made by Urquhart in his book Flow
Architectures. The schema of a topic is known by the "Flow Processor"
component within the architecture. Since every subscription would need one
instance of this component, each would host a reference to the
corresponding schema (i.e. an URL to an Avro schema). However, the document
does not drill down on this subject and should address it. Thanks for the
comment, I will rework it.



*I'd also wonder to what extent this work is being addressed by the CNCF.*

As far as I am aware, the CNCF has one related project called CloudEvents,
which focuses on the Payload Format and not on the Metadata Format. This
draft addresses the Metadata Format and its protocol. Basically,
CloudEvents focuses on the message schema but not on how peers negotiate a
subscription. There is also the case of Nats, whose protocol combines both
formats.


Thanks,
Emiliano

On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 8:39 PM Tim Bray <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Having been a designer of AWS EventBridge and worked with the AWS Managed
> Kafka service, I'm reasonably well-exposed to these issues.  I suspect
> that (a) a standardized framework such as proposed here would be generally
> useful, but (b) it would be a ton of work and I'd be hesitant to take it on
> without plausible commitments to put the work in.
>
> The draft is immensely long and the ratio of motivation and evangelism to
> specification much too high, but the breakdown of components seems broadly
> sane. There are issues, for example: (a) it wouldn’t be OK to require
> Kubernetes, or specific programming languages for compliance and (b) the
> draft doesn't say anything about message schemas, which are a big and
> fairly central problem in these applications.
>
> I'd also wonder to what extent this work is being addressed by the CNCF.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 4:03 AM Emiliano Spinella <
> [e-mail]> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I have submitted a new draft for discussion:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-spinella-event-streaming-open-network/
>>
>> The draft contains several images which are broken in the Datatracker
>> html version (still dealing with SVG Tiny 1.2 format). In the meantime, you
>> can read the draft including images at:
>> https://github.com/syndeno/draft-spinella-event-streaming-open-network
>>
>> The general idea of an Event Streaming Open Network is to have an open
>> framework for the discovery, name resolution and overall communication of
>> event streams. The participants of this network could use whatever event
>> broker implementation they want. Thus, they would be able to consume and
>> produce events independently of the event broker used by their peers.
>>
>> The document describes the motivation, design and an initial
>> implementation of a (free and open) way to connect event streams across
>> different network participants. The purpose is to facilitate
>> cross-organizational event flow connections over the Internet. This work
>> has been highly influenced by the Email architecture and its protocols
>> (RFC5321, RFC3501 and RFC6068; among others). Also, it leverages unicast
>> DNS-SD for resource discovery (RFC6763).
>>
>> Although a A BoF request has been submitted for this topic (
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bofreq-spinella-event-streaming-open-network/)
>> I would like to request agenda time for a presentation in Dispatch during
>> IETF 113.
>>
>> I would be happy to hear your feedback about this draft.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Emiliano
>>
>>
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