Re: [dispatch] Demonstration of Implementer Support for Multibase and Multihash at IETF (was: Re: Finding a home for Multibase and Multihash)

[Manu Sporny <[e-mail]>]

On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 3:16 AM Martin J. Dürst <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Having to subscribe to a mailing list just to say "I support this work"
> indeed seems tedious.

Agreed.

> But please note that the actual spec work will be
> done on a mailing list (the one which was created already). As long as
> all these supporters (or at least a fair percentage of them) are ready
> to join the mailing list for the actual work, I personally am fine with
> expressions of interest like the ones you provided.

Understood. More on this below...

> P.S.: Please note that IETF WGs are quite free in how much of the
> details they want to use github for, but important issues should be
> announced on the mailing list, and discussion in github should not be
> seen as final.

Not to belabor this point too much longer, but... :)

Operating in a mailing list-first mode is not how a non-trivial number
of the upcoming generations of engineers operate... and I say this
coming from a generation that grew up using, and being comfortable
with, using mailing lists as a primary mode of operation.

 "discussion in Github should not be seen as final" is starting to
feel like it's at the cusp of being an antiquated idea. If we look at
the volume of where conversations are happening now at places like
W3C... the vast majority is done via Github issue trackers, Slack, and
Signal channels.

Sadly, these are proprietary tools, but ones that give considerable
productivity benefits over mailing-list-first approaches (such as
explicit threading, sentiment signalling (via emojis), bridging to
mailing lists, pull request reviews, etc.)

I don't expect IETF to change how it operates via mailing lists any
time soon; mergely expressing a data point. Getting younger engineers
to join standards mailing lists is an uphill slog... the older among
us are currently slogging to get these younger folks joined, but it is
as if we just asked them to ride their horses into town when they've
got a perfectly operational electric bike sitting in their garage. :P

IETF has some of the best remote participation infrastructure when it
comes to the meetings, and being able to dispatch, easily, from
anywhere in the world via video conference is the sort of innovation
we've come to expect from IETF. The younger generations don't seem to
have an issue with /that/ particular set of infrastructure.

I'm just not sure that working through the mailing lists are in the
same league of expected infrastructure by the younger generations. :)
Again, as a data point, for the Multiformats work, mailing list
engagement has been a challenge, where Github, Google Doc, Slack, and
Signal engagement has been much easier.

Again, just a data point, no need to debate it on dispatch.

-- manu

-- 
Manu Sporny - https://www.linkedin.com/in/manusporny/
Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
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