Re: [dispatch] New I-D - SPIN - on voice/video interop between app providers

[Alissa Cooper <[e-mail]>]

Hi Stephen,

> On Jul 13, 2022, at 7:38 AM, Stephen Farrell <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hiya,
> 
> On 13/07/2022 03:42, Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:
>> Stephen and Paul -
>> The suggestion here to focus on phone numbers is quite intentional.
> 
> And I intentionally disagree with that design choice:-)
> 
>> You are technically correct that, this could be made to work with email
>> addresses too. The difference however, is that it dramatically expands the
>> scope of companies that would need to implement this. If we limit ourselves
>> to mobile numbers - we only need two companies (two that are likely to be
>> compelled by DMA) to support this. The core problem we need to solve here
>> is adoption, and we need to optimize for that.
> 
> To me, it just seems bizarre to react to DMA with a
> proposal that seems to further entrench the mobile OS
> duopoly, and that's what limiting to phone numbers
> seems to me to do.
> 
> Phone numbers and email addresses are the primary
> forms of contact information people have for one another
> and both ought be supported in an effort like this.
> 
> If there are substantive differences in handling those,
> e.g. different threats, then handing them differently is
> a good plan, but limiting to one or the other is not.

I don’t think the proposal as it is sketched out prevents anyone from proposing an email-address-based discovery mechanism that would work for the same target class of applications. But it likely would not share much with the design of SPIN.

Alissa

> 
> Cheers,
> S.
> 
> 
>> Thx,
>> Jonathan R.
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 5:03 PM Stephen Farrell <[e-mail]>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hiya,
>>> 
>>> On 12/07/2022 16:31, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
>>>> On 7/12/22 10:34 AM, Brian Rosen wrote:
>>>>> Definitely interesting.  Would be wiling to work on it.
>>>> 
>>>> +1
>>> 
>>> Same here. If we could produce a good answer here, that'd be
>>> great. I'm not yet sure if this proposal is a good answer,
>>> but trying to solve the problem and in the IETF seems like a
>>> good idea to me.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> IIUC this doesn't cover the case of a user with a computer connected to
>>>> the internet but without its own phone number or SMS connectivity. Any
>>>> thoughts on how to deal with that?
>>> 
>>> That was also my main comment (following a v. quick scan of
>>> the draft). I'd really like an email address based option as
>>> well as phone numbers.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> S.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>      Thanks,
>>>>      Paul
>>>> 
>>>>> Is there a reason MSRP isn’t acceptable for the messaging default
>>>>> protocol?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Probably want to mention Real Time Text via RFC4103 (SIP signaled like
>>>>> voice and video).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Are the cloud sip extensions actually necessary to get a minimum
>>>>> viable protocol for this purpose?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Might want to look at RFC9248 which is a SIP profile that uses the
>>>>> WebRTC media specs, DTLS-SRTP, and a bunch of other things to get a
>>>>> common client for audio, video and real time text.  Probably not
>>>>> entirely suitable for this purpose, but it’s a start of things that
>>>>> should be considered.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brian
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 12, 2022, at 10:13 AM, Jonathan Rosenberg <[e-mail]
>>>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi fellow dispatchers -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I wanted to call attention to the following draft submitted yesterday:
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-rosenberg-dispatch-spin-00.txt
>>>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-rosenberg-dispatch-spin-00.txt>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Abstract:
>>>>>> This document introduces a framework and a protocol for facilitating
>>>>>>     voice, video and messaging interoperability between application
>>>>>>     providers.  This work is motivated by the recent passage of
>>>>>>     regulation in the European Union - the Digital Markets Act (DMA) -
>>>>>>     which, amongst many other provisions, requires that vendors of
>>>>>>     applications with a large number of users enable interoperability
>>>>>>     with applications made by other vendors.  While such
>>>>>> interoperability
>>>>>>     is broadly present within the public switched telephone network, it
>>>>>>     is not yet commonplace between over-the-top applications, such as
>>>>>>     Facetime, WhatsApp, and Facebook Messenger.  This document
>>>>>>     specifically defines the Simple Protocol for Inviting Numbers
>>> (SPIN)
>>>>>>     which is used to deliver invitations to mobile phone numbers that
>>>>>> can
>>>>>>     bootstrap subsequent communications over the Internet.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Right now, we're looking to see if there is interest in working on
>>>>>> this. Comments welcome.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thx,
>>>>>> Jonathan R.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jonathan Rosenberg, Ph.D.
>>>>>> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>>>>> http://www.jdrosen.net <http://www.jdrosen.net/>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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