[dispatch] De-munging mailing list messages

Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> Sat, 20 August 2022 12:44 UTC

Return-Path: <vesely@tana.it>
X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E47B3C152713 for <dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 20 Aug 2022 05:44:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.106
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.106 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (unsupported algorithm ed25519-sha256)" header.d=tana.it header.b=cb1q/IU7; dkim=pass (1152-bit key) header.d=tana.it header.b=Bw0AcCij
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1_03xi5yPn1l for <dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 20 Aug 2022 05:44:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wmail.tana.it (wmail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D98DC1522A8 for <dispatch@ietf.org>; Sat, 20 Aug 2022 05:43:56 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=epsilon; t=1660999431; bh=peMlJEiIVrs2Ze++flA3S6Fk+9i2AIMz0eaJ0ZoRuPU=; h=Date:To:From:Subject; b=cb1q/IU70N4d+vktJ9OffTHrAzH6fWRh3fryDSeEP+c43uIpDcfw39PEm7iLeRMgW v2m9ngw8HDBg5C8jtJsAQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=delta; t=1660999431; bh=peMlJEiIVrs2Ze++flA3S6Fk+9i2AIMz0eaJ0ZoRuPU=; h=Date:To:From; b=Bw0AcCijBpuZkB/LGenmyTHUBQS/mY2R+d4FH7T6sxR/OxKaQMx3O9G5YviGOaXPg jrx02D5SiGB9Re2a3fL9PXJg946N2SFX4Y94y9OtJ+5dPuWkm9WcFLMbf4aRQM2Plo CZY5a6r8bv7lRewGgesWR0rjE27GCUKVArMq2s/XzVon2YiTAQtlgXBl046v4
Author: Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it>
Received: from [172.25.197.111] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.111]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 uXDGrn@SYT0/k, TLS: TLS1.3, 128bits, ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA id 00000000005DC042.000000006300D707.00007F5C; Sat, 20 Aug 2022 14:43:51 +0200
Message-ID: <e9da8819-e60b-54ef-e3d7-db5230a8adcc@tana.it>
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 14:43:51 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.12.0
To: dispatch@ietf.org
Content-Language: en-US
Authentication-Results: tana.it; auth=pass (details omitted)
From: Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/tUmb6VGkH9ScnKcm_jK05HkRT_s>
Subject: [dispatch] De-munging mailing list messages
X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List <dispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dispatch>, <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:dispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch>, <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 12:44:07 -0000

Hi,

there still seems to be qualms about making full use of DMARC.  Part of them, I 
feel, are related to mailing lists.  All mailing lists I know have finally 
enabled From: munging.  But is it an annoyance for list participants to receive 
munged messages?

If a list saves the pristine value of From:, receivers can then restore it. 
That's the reason why RFC9057 introduces the Author: header field.

Would this list experiment adding Author: fields?
Would participants set up local MDA filters to restore From: based on that?

I asked these questions to dmarc list, but they're fed up with the topic of 
indirect mail flows, which they dealt with specifying ARC.  They are now beyond 
that phase, consider de-munging off topic, and suggested to ask here.

I tried and collected ideas on how to set up de-munging in the "simple method" 
of my draft:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-vesely-dmarc-mlm-transform

(The draft also describes a "complex" method, which can be enabled by a 
recipient without coordinating with a ML.  It works ~50% of cases only.)


Best
Ale
--