Re: [dmarc-ietf] Email security beyond DMARC?

Ken Simpson <ksimpson+ietfdmarc@mailchannels.com> Thu, 21 March 2019 17:13 UTC

Return-Path: <ksimpson@mailchannels.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDAA2131457 for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Mar 2019 10:13:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mailchannels.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J8YJXiiwN2Mz for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Mar 2019 10:13:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ot1-x331.google.com (mail-ot1-x331.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::331]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60F13131451 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Mar 2019 10:13:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ot1-x331.google.com with SMTP id 64so1523953otb.8 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Mar 2019 10:13:29 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=wdBKn/ynvD1l48HbWc1P1poJAcf09GrkO4+bRxbeN5o=; b=btz4w8eZ1jN04VomgAcmrBddIPsSe9WWNE++aKtUnObsvZh2B9u+CG1Ka2qU34ikpJ PlDJZYGqGfnsV1B+EZNGC1IKYkFHi3s/I9axDRP7HOHlFLCVvfl71+KUhbt4rPDnAQX1 NeITtg3YIlkqx+V1+rjApCqeXq/KXCoUULw6s=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wdBKn/ynvD1l48HbWc1P1poJAcf09GrkO4+bRxbeN5o=; b=eaHlc0HRogRvVmtkGayBKyBZY8fOJA1WEbFLI6EW2oIE4FfKxcATNDwvM5pg1RLKFB 5KdazA0fB6mtA6CkAJ5s+nJrVQZas7OOqFzvbvXYbw9nnrm5rj3XMjdpKzu7AJCdEVHc jMMhCASdTP/3Opg+t0SYec+zp9lUhvDQbn1HnxLxTwp6jWRW9YjYMYXx7t+soFKM+Io7 QEVCCP1i9kV4KrFwNhmtexu81kP2W0t/xc7v330Q09QXCqHYw7I0jYLAgJ6TQShQKDJH gYiIo1PmuRQV8/1J1QjFTbeCdbLVYIXxSoTXIsPyCnjGD/F4hz3YcWHvZUWJBRk2rxkG maIQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWB82oXUjkiikfl9+pr8LO40vWSb6vISg43METy1mwYxaoLr8l2 uQYNdVdhaAylk7rD2spZHGbQEDJntTOdmMpO6PmZKg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxpF9Yps+hAWngjCHbHXSaBwkqKm18XicQiD4KtBsna6JCf7p/tXZ7lMTkjwuVJjLKCjFh7HODf4BFPdunW7bw=
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:3e02:: with SMTP id a2mr3370926otd.232.1553188408496; Thu, 21 Mar 2019 10:13:28 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <20190319184209.804E42010381DB@ary.qy> <alpine.DEB.2.20.1903201442260.7108@softronics.hoeneisen.ch> <alpine.OSX.2.21.1903201042010.79863@ary.qy> <CAJ4XoYcyaEBHYGPDY4ah_O+Obk-tijnL9SnxvzKyywu4BEmkrw@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.OSX.2.21.1903211031070.83149@ary.qy> <CAEYhs4GJeRhCQUxWxCDm8K46v_rTjER3ueoMRhMdUdZzK1ZSaQ@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.OSX.2.21.1903211308550.83693@ary.qy>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.21.1903211308550.83693@ary.qy>
From: Ken Simpson <ksimpson+ietfdmarc@mailchannels.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 10:12:52 -0700
Message-ID: <CAEYhs4EUNjtwvxwDauJx5pM8XsKxnAJipVsC9zZkmXm35_drfQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Cc: IETF DMARC WG <dmarc@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005bb4db05849ddb9e"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/2QV_BbT5Y5SnkrMfR2FtoDgB1eA>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] Email security beyond DMARC?
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 17:13:32 -0000

On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 10:09 AM John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

> > IMHO, by cutting out direct domain spoofing, DMARC makes it easier for
> > receivers to craft algorithms that spot impersonation attacks.
>
> I realize that's the theory, but do we know how well that works in
> practice?
>

That would be crossing into the realm of tradecraft.

Regards,
Ken