From nobody Fri Jun 9 22:35:19 2023 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AB93C151719 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2023 22:35:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RS3yO5oiCyLs for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2023 22:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ed1-x534.google.com (mail-ed1-x534.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::534]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACFCCC151700 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2023 22:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x534.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-51669dd574aso647416a12.0 for ; Fri, 09 Jun 2023 22:35:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1686375316; x=1688967316; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wjF7mt2wHoJdP7hJfzSZIJT8n8cIly4Msbg4JgFArIo=; b=Bf5ZBg9lb20t83wKlteD1S8WmPrLCgYV8qhh0nJUbU0cDmuNO1drUS5NZaYLnW/oGz q0ZCXmIZBg3v4IXLbE2rPYc7vCuflx6LDvHHGqr7czyvloAwCoF8hcJ9uo40KIvMGgpO 4cSSKjvD5cbkzwvzK5X0q2R3WOgVH2qcSFy/pYyPYECbYPdgUb0NBDe9rqmwbW03JMQy baYlc2s6gn6egn3kTLWz50rYtD9FNy/XKGB//gHpMrwkcnrkz13H3TrZ55GJ0YNZOkjO ml/cP+v/4XJrIyzyf5aYRTfN467WEgKaSmLKHqq8hEYgIZ1c6Zv+9Dqp34d5HLqTK5VM ot6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1686375316; x=1688967316; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=wjF7mt2wHoJdP7hJfzSZIJT8n8cIly4Msbg4JgFArIo=; b=bXBd33RuHKyzdiyUfTLCkoagLnjUeQGGhmbvDbvXpDp0hyzC2YLcWpzqJT074otySp Nn7h6IjAto4t+0KiduVcWpFi8glqD8es1NljWV3mr/ULYPkdG8VOEUgFlCIIGnzs9jpX 5mUddxLMIaQx7RNrU9JrJe4U6bW1p3JrF212Iv3Rt/Zez/we6GiKsk9RJAfYLZSLCmvS dxhbYVJ6lqlZWOyxVz034nVmB/UKCY/j51o66itTCCF0QHi+jfx/BIa9a+p6jdbr/m4i 8hLtiF2fOf/6fm8IBwrosPjSSG2AFNLb9NJ0MSqCMuzG4NO3SjGH30zJdTT+mOeWDkYY PcQA== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDxGaUf7BWz09TzenUDZz3bBqXSJNPVVblW7ea0fgm7C93QalSLR QCskzck+t0cTGjjFuSbgCm/60astt5hfjLaJVFo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ53vFwUclmSFdaZULBZ5Bg+JGeuR0ASfirhQU7HlSUNKMsWoFZ8/IqZ5hA2h2NNflfYM3mhySfvmTp05zSdrpU= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:56:b0:978:a991:c367 with SMTP id 22-20020a170906005600b00978a991c367mr3167375ejg.2.1686375315844; Fri, 09 Jun 2023 22:35:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30BB83B2-B454-41B8-992B-8E2569802D9C@1und1.de> <7f854d28-d3b5-fd00-4613-b8baa1217bd7@tana.it> In-Reply-To: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2023 22:35:03 -0700 Message-ID: To: Alessandro Vesely Cc: Barry Leiba , dmarc@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a8b28505fdbfd98b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC2 & SPF Dependency Removal X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2023 05:35:18 -0000 --000000000000a8b28505fdbfd98b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 8:49=E2=80=AFAM Alessandro Vesely w= rote: > On Fri 09/Jun/2023 16:07:07 +0200 Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > > And signing software shouldn't be mutating messages ever (other than > adding > > signatures, of course). > > Section 5.3, Normalize the Message to Prevent Transport Conversions, give= s > different advice. UTF-8, though, seems to be subject to mutating > fashions; > conversion to 7-bit form, IMHO, makes sense only if it is base64. Quoted > printable is messy and prevents recovery after MLM transformation. > You were previously talking about inserting ">" before a line starting "From ", which is typically done on delivery when writing to an mbox-formatted mailbox file, because in that format, "From " at the front of a line has a specific meaning (i.e., "this is a new message"). If that insertion is happening in transport, then a local mailbox convention is leaking out into the transport environment, which means something is misconfigured, and all bets are off. In any case, it is not a transport conversion anticipated by the section you're quoting, so I've no idea why a DKIM signer might opt to handle it specially. -MSK, participating --000000000000a8b28505fdbfd98b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 8:49=E2=80=AFAM Al= essandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it>= ; wrote:
On Fri 09/Jun/2023 16:07:07 +0200 Murray S. Kucherawy wrote= :
> And signing software shouldn't be mutating messages ever (other th= an adding
> signatures, of course).

Section 5.3, Normalize the Message to Prevent Transport Conversions, gives =
different advice.=C2=A0 UTF-8, though, seems to be subject to mutating fash= ions;
conversion to 7-bit form, IMHO, makes sense only if it is base64.=C2=A0 Quo= ted
printable is messy and prevents recovery after MLM transformation.

You were previously talking about inserting "&g= t;" before a line starting "From ", which is typically done = on delivery when writing to an mbox-formatted mailbox file, because in that= format, "From " at the front of a line has a specific meaning (i= .e., "this is a new message").=C2=A0 If that insertion is happeni= ng in transport, then a local mailbox convention is leaking out into the tr= ansport environment, which means something is misconfigured, and all bets a= re off.

In any case, it is not a transport conversion anticipated by the sect= ion you're quoting, so I've no idea why a DKIM signer might opt to = handle it specially.

-MSK, participating
--000000000000a8b28505fdbfd98b--