Re: [dmarc-ietf] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dmarc-psd-10.txt

Dave Crocker <dcrocker@gmail.com> Mon, 22 February 2021 15:22 UTC

Return-Path: <dcrocker@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEB483A198E for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 07:22:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xC6bC70rRvfc for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 07:22:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-oi1-x22c.google.com (mail-oi1-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 695FF3A0BBC for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 07:21:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-oi1-x22c.google.com with SMTP id x20so2263216oie.11 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 07:21:10 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=eQWUOTr2iBlEYRExBbKyJKgHbVNVEngBlLQSUc8i004=; b=XthClWvD5b6GW0Jr91nDErhA3kaIJH7pJ4zd+85cHd7mElDELkAQ/hILnF4oKljlg4 myUE8mDe8rEOcxBN+zQM1PmpjOB1Mg7ZTnt2aVIZ+1kpVtzU2280Y0rrTQPP/UULKYKi TWmHKoIyd5TJNC/bv1qHLNm7Y1zDSie6eD5FnkdEZeS2VpKobSskqkmk/DOU208ByTCj DFDewe8jT64lVZ/nD1m8R340ZvBSMNkx3g2eOeeXJEQUYhqJlphw8BRCy/ZAuqtd2FGu 4msP0Hk7CLiDfhJwgeOY54fEHmQ+GENS/zLUyax9yBym5BOaLpnpQHfV4JwGOUoYgehk vuZw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=eQWUOTr2iBlEYRExBbKyJKgHbVNVEngBlLQSUc8i004=; b=h0TtzuTWI+SfrXyV1FfUNKLMZjLvKFqGnQ0l65LWz60dhdvdI/oURmQ8CgkKxmVxdk KqBJCInaDSuJTbeWhOWfpCVCXDD1yZ2jjYCiScUPAL59ruWaWEF02DRTLF2sfWClm9ak cJJTy5YV0UxdCI4Z0wBsHVIbig72BWRQZo+bIL3Ihvs9VLQh2xgG13KXavoRZnPREMZK Zqx64DjtAQ+WewyTcdnjH7/lVKdUX9l7GbCiBQrVva66aPZS/Tw+ij0U/iM6z0Ye4G+p YXlkM2RiwJDIFmcGRXSpcE/Q6OnPS++bM2jG8yxFwIywFAcg6ylYzQrHcpHH2A6d0eOW XWEw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533y5NGZ7al1eBeU2hl+BtzqQUsxJaG99fbVPX/QQbuOFPSGGnwb /E/Kh29I4trHz88FzmdPoqRxmeS92A5JxA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzjHhZ9inHG/GYY2bGJCEsvoYc+N1Y6m8EOUNBBdhhBTMDoOmKDARkSz0nazE+2gi/dWjBAdw==
X-Received: by 2002:aca:1708:: with SMTP id j8mr15809809oii.29.1614007269533; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 07:21:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.0.109] (108-226-162-63.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.226.162.63]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u81sm2567007oie.46.2021.02.22.07.21.08 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 22 Feb 2021 07:21:09 -0800 (PST)
To: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>, "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com>
Cc: IETF DMARC WG <dmarc@ietf.org>
References: <161144436332.13490.10651420808048876097@ietfa.amsl.com> <CADyWQ+EhD0nz71dLtUFwb9V_6uuen-k6E5fpvrCg3ZYzfr2JSw@mail.gmail.com> <ba38a9e4-7f43-c747-2d90-f35de22a8399@gmail.com> <CAL0qLwZJaEBrXdE9JOZNOJAgR7iEzfMA86Csi2sNtE5JC7ROUQ@mail.gmail.com> <c5cd9239-b204-255a-48a3-1cdccf18464a@gmail.com> <CAL0qLwYrcg__sewPO+EWfJf-5uoHcnQpFqtw-QoXxngHTJvkAA@mail.gmail.com> <CAC4RtVDCeFQU9RTN6osPTrMpap-Djkx5+Czx=-nKqVeXnyEy1Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAL0qLwZXkRMLXS7mt28-vEKKk4HgWkP98P8kdYaS1XbcYQvSxQ@mail.gmail.com> <CALaySJLVGhaBhrmDSYayYrcU9JSq_pY6D8=KoirUGCrOeKeHCQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Dave Crocker <dcrocker@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2e2b6204-244d-dd6f-dced-e4318562710c@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 07:21:06 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CALaySJLVGhaBhrmDSYayYrcU9JSq_pY6D8=KoirUGCrOeKeHCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/3_eXEEN0KmQZB9Ufq5EoEe6r-2U>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dmarc-psd-10.txt
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 15:22:49 -0000

>>> Actually that's a community that I would expect to know exactly what all those terms mean and
>>> how they are all related.

yes. But it's worse than that.  The current language is not 
automatically clear even for folk with good knowledge about DNS 
administration.

As is being noted, I too think a great deal of the problem is 
over-reliance on the word register.

It is being used as if it explains a basic difference in administrative 
roles.  It doesn't.  Not even close.


>> To work with the example you gave here, I agree that "facebook.com" is registered (under "com"), but
>> disagree that "www.facebook.com" is registered at all;
> Right, of course it's not.

I disagree.  Strongly.  The fact that one registration is internal and 
another is through a third-party, semi-regulated service does not make a 
difference, for the use of that word.

I work with an organization that has an IT department that is just as 
formal typical ICANN-authorized registries.  To get a sub-domain is a 
Very Big Deal.  Don't think for a moment that it is fundamentally 
different than interacting with the TLD registeries.


> I didn't say that it is: I said that
> people who don't fully understand this stuff *think* it is, and that's
> the part that the text isn't making clear.
>
>> To my mind, "register" involves a specific transaction, sometimes involving money, with whoever gates
>> access to make those delegations.

How much do you pay to register to vote?

However the rest of the above statement is correct.  A transaction to 
record gain access to a resource or to reserve access to it.

Registration is a process of signing up.  That's all.  And it says 
nothing about the role or relationship of the entity the registration is 
with.



d/


-- 
Dave Crocker
dcrocker@gmail.com
408.329.0791

Volunteer, Silicon Valley Chapter
American Red Cross
dave.crocker2@redcross.org